Bush pledges to 'deal' with Saddam

[Diva]

(AnnaNova (http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_543791.html)) -- George W Bush describes Saddam Hussein as "a problem" and says the US is "going to deal with him".

The blunt talking comes as US Vice-President Dick Cheney continues his tour of the Middle East.

Leaders in the region warn there will be no support for a campaign to topple the Iraqi leader unless there is peace between Israel and the Palestinians.

Mr Bush tackled both issues head on at a rare White House press conference. He said Saddam Hussein will now be allowed to gain weapons of mass destruction and called Israel's military incursions in the West Bank and Gaza Strip "unhelpful".

Mr Bush avoided using the phrase "axis of evil" when talking about Iraq, but said: "One thing I will not allow is a nation such as Iraq to threaten our future by having weapons of mass destruction."

And speaking about Saddam, he said: "This is a man who used chemical weapons against his own people. He is a problem and we are going to deal with him. But the first thing we are going to do is consult with our allies and friends. One of the things we said to our friends is that we will consult, we will share our views of how to make the world more safe. What the Vice-President is doing is he is reminding people about this danger and that we need to work in concert to confront this danger."

The first thing that came to my mind after reading this is, "That should make Cheney feel comfortable on his trip."

Did I tell ya, or did I tell ya? We're going after Iraq next. Pesonally, I think that Bush should keep a lid on things until he has the military to back up his "consults". What are your opinions?

[ozblonde]

Mr Bush tackled both issues head on at a rare White House press conference. He said Saddam Hussein will now be allowed to gain weapons of mass destruction and called Israel's military incursions in the West Bank and Gaza Strip "unhelpful".

How in the name of #@%& can that be israels fault? They are a nation living in the middle of countries who all want them dead. Every week there is another suicide bombing and more of their citizens are killed and maimed. Three suicide bombings in the USA and george bush and his mates took a country apart. Israel defends them selves and its considered "unhelpful" What does he and the rest of the world expect?:finger: GO ISRAEL!!!

[ozblonde]

*adjusts skirt and reapplys mask of innocence*

[Diva]

At least you don't have him as your President. I respect the President of our Country, but not the man trying to fill his shoes.

[ozblonde]

Originally posted by Diva
At least you don't have him as your President. I respect the President of our Country, but not the man trying to fill his shoes.

You have such a way with words Diva. I`ll use that one later if you dont mind :D

[Anton]

Originally posted by ozblonde


How in the name of #@%& can that be israels fault? They are a nation living in the middle of countries who all want them dead. Every week there is another suicide bombing and more of their citizens are killed and maimed. Three suicide bombings in the USA and george bush and his mates took a country apart. Israel defends them selves and its considered "unhelpful" What does he and the rest of the world expect?:finger: GO ISRAEL!!!

Well if I was a palestinian I'd be very pissed off. Israel didn't even used to exist and here they are taking up a big chunk of Palestine and they keep wanting more and more

[Diva]

There is so much turmoil going on between the Palistinians and Israelis that I would not even expect them to come together and fight a 'foreign' cause. They need to deal with their homeland. i feel that it was arrogant of Bush to even assume they would drop their turmoil and give any aid.

[ozblonde]

Originally posted by Anton


Well if I was a palestinian I'd be very pissed off. Israel didn't even used to exist and here they are taking up a big chunk of Palestine and they keep wanting more and more

Anton if you go far enough back in history every where was once somebody elses home land. Israel is continually blamed for every thing thats happening over there but every week there is another attack of some kind on its people. How long would you put up with that before you demanded your government do something? I hate fighting but if you stand and slap me long enough I will eventually snap and hit back. I personally am backing Israels right to protect its citizens just as George bush has to protect his.

[Anton]

Originally posted by ozblonde


Anton if you go far enough back in history every where was once somebody elses home land. Israel is continually blamed for every thing thats happening over there but every week there is another attack of some kind on its people. How long would you put up with that before you demanded your government do something? I hate fighting but if you stand and slap me long enough I will eventually snap and hit back. I personally am backing Israels right to protect its citizens just as George bush has to protect his.

Countires got their land through war and destroying the opposition. Israel was just created. Palestine couldn't do a thing aboutit or they basically would've been a dead country as the whole world would have boycotted them. Now Israel wants more and more land and the Palestinians want thier's back.

Its a futile war anyway because at some point the 'free' world will just step in blow up some stuff and give it all to Israel.

"For a hill men would kill. Why? They do not know"

[ozblonde]

The Six Day War broke out on June 5, 1967, following three weeks of tension, which began on May 15, 1967 when it became known that Egypt had concentrated large-scale forces in the Sinai peninsula. Egypt's force buildup in the Sinai was accompanied by other serious steps:
1) the United Nations Emergency Force stationed on the border between Egypt and Israel which had provided an actual separation between the countries was evacuated on May 19 upon the demands of the Egyptian president at the time, Gamal Abdel-Nasser;

2) the Egyptian navy blocked the Straits of Tiran, located at the end of the Gulf of Eilat, on the night of May 22-23, 1967, preventing the passage of any Israeli vessels;

3) and on May 30, 1967, Jordan joined the Egyptian-Syrian military alliance of 1966 and placed its army on both sides of the Jordan river under Egyptian command. Iraq followed suit. It agreed to send reinforcement and issued a warning order to two brigades: Contingents arrived from other Arab countries including Algeria and Kuwait. Israel was confronted by an Arab force of some 465,000 troops, over 2,880 tanks and 810 aircraft.

4) This tension came on top of Syrian attacks on Israeli farmers and on Israeli fishing boats and other craft in the Sea of Galilee.

In this way, a direct threat along the whole length of Israel's territory was created. None of this Anton was Israels doing. Israel in fact was deserted by the united nations and all of her allies including Great Britan, France, and the United States.
. The government of Israel approached the powers who had guaranteed the freedom of Israeli navigation. Britain and France reneged on their commitment and the President of the United States proposed a plan for breaking the blockade by an international armada. Israel agreed to wait and give the plan a chance. When it became clear later that the political negotiations had failed, the Government, on June 4 gave approval to the Israel Defense Forces to undertake military offensive to eliminate the threat to Israel’s existence. And that Anton is how Israel came to be in possession of the disputed territories. So you see Israel did actually win the Golan heights and all the other disputed territories in a war. A war they actually won in six days against superior numbers and weapons. The dispute now is that the one time owners of the occupied territories want them back and since they lost it fair and square in a fight they started Israel says no. Every time another American president is going to bring peace to the middle east Israel actually loses a little more of its hard won territory. Israel gives land and the Arabs give more broken promises of peace.
At what point Anton do you believe Israel has a right to live in peace. Israel has never moved its troops at any time into someone elses country with out provocation. What do you believe is the point of a country such as Israel maintaining a defence force at great expense if it fails to protect its citizens?
In short Anton the Palestinians and all the rest gambled their countries in a war they lost. Now they are saying "we want it back" Im simply saying they gambled they lost they should shut up and get on with it. Try going to your local race track and asking the bookie for your money back when you lose.

:kissy:

[Anton]

The partition of Palestine and the creation of Israel may have been intended by UNSCOP to solve the problem of conflict in this area, but this attempt to bring peace failed . . .

Palestine was partioned to make way for Israel, 1000's of palastinians were displaced. An upheavel like this would be difficulty enough for a developed country but for one like Palestine it would have been near enough impossible.

If I was one of the displaced people I would be pissed of at having to move because "the world" says I have to.

I never said Israel shouldn't have the right to live in peace. Everybody should that right.

I'm also not just discussing the recent fighting, I'm talking about Israel's actual existence

Also did you know that Israel claims Jerusalem as its capital, something that is not recognised by neither Palestine nor the UN. Now if another country claimed London as it own capital that would annoy me slightly as well

[Anton]

And if I was in one of those countries at the time I'd be slightly annoyed as well but I'm not. its not the same thing though really.

Palestine have basicaly had their capital stolen from, under their noses. Australia still had its old capital. It could technically be said that it, along with other commonwealth countries had 2 capitals

[ozblonde]

Originally posted by aussie


Well to this point Ive stayed out of this one
However I might point out Anton that many countries were given no choice to at one time or another call London their capital.
Some thing I find slightly annoying. Shit as members of the commonwealth we were even given a king like it or not.
http://www.bluemeanie.tsn.cc/gif/aussie/au001.gif

Good aussie you stay out of this one. If I need to know where to find something or need advice I`ll ask. I offered to back you up after a perl harbour job last week and got told to F$%& off remember. So dont help me now. :) (Ive been waiting to get you with that one)

Anton I spent hours answering you when you said


Countires got their land through war and destroying the opposition.

Now you just try to slide on out and not even answer me. *OZ takes Anton by the ear sits him in front of the computer and points at the key board
I have no dispute with the fact that palestine was partitioned. I concede your point that they have/had a right to be angry. As for claiming Jeruslem as their capital I will point out once again that they lost it in a war they and the rest of the arab world started. From the point they lost it forward it became Israels property to do as they pleased with. If they`re unhappy about something let them be unhappy with their leaders who started the six day war. Also dont you think its a good thing Israel didnt want Cairo. Damascas, or Beruit as a capital? Because they had no reason to stop in that war did they?:)

[Anton]

Originally posted by ozblonde
Now you just try to slide on out and not even answer me.

My silence comes from running out of things to say. My knowledge on this subject has been expended. Further debate will reqire research which I would love to do but takes about seat to catching up on 10 hours worth of Pure Maths, 8 hours worth of physics and 8 hours worth of computing in a short a time as possible whilst still doing the work set at the moment, trying to find a job, revising from my impending exams and doing coursework.

I have a busy time ahead but I may be back to continue this debate when I learn new things.

it doesn't help things when I never actually watch the news or read a paper.

(Now is it me or was that a post of excuses?)

[Sterling]

As someone who does read an enourmous volume of newspapers (at least when I can get decent British ones here in Seattle that actually cover news rather than the insular BS that passes for reporting in America), I have come to the following conclusions about this sort of 'homeland' conflict:
[list=1]
It's always a way more complex situation than can be summed up in a paragraph long forum post.
Casual observers from uninvolved 3rd party countries (that's you and me) are frequently very poorly informed.
Arguments between said casual observers on the topic frequently turn nasty and shed little light on the situation.
[/list=1]
Here's an example of what I mean. I generally side with the underdog, I'm not a big fan of colonial power or countries that claim to be in the right simply because they can bully a less well equipped adversary. On that score, I should be a natural supporter of the Palestinians. Then I look at the situation in Northern Ireland, and I realise it's not quite that simple. If the British ever did just throw up their hands and give the province back to the Irish (and believe me, to most mainland Brits, it seems like an awfully tempting thing to do), the result would be instant civil war, because there would be a huge group of people that would have a (not unreasonable) claim that they had just been sold out. So I'm forced to reevaluate and think that maybe you need a compromise solution that nobody likes 100%, but most people can live with. Then I look back at the Israelis, and think that although my gut tells me they're in the wrong, my head tells me that I probably don't understand enough about the situation to be qualified to form that judgement.

Then you have to add in the fact the news reporting is almost always biased, and usually more than you think.

In short, it's a tricky mess, and armchair diplomats are rarely armed with enough unfiltered information to come even close to having a clue what they're talking about. That includes me, and I inhale news reports in about the same quantity as oxygen.

[aussie]

Well I kinda find it hard not to see Israel as the under dogs in this one. They are surounded by countries on all sides that would like nothing better than their total removal from the face of the earth. Countries with more money, better weapons, and more people. I guess above all I admire tenacity.

THATS IF I CAN POST ON THIS THREAD WITH OUT OZ BITCH SLAPPING ME


Good aussie you stay out of this one. If I need to know where to find something or need advice I`ll ask. I offered to back you up after a perl harbour job last week and got told to F$%& off remember.

* aussie bows his head in defeat and vows to mind his own business
Nice cyber slap there bitch. I guess I`ll just stop being a sticky beak from here on in.

[Sterling]

Well I kinda find it hard not to see Israel as the under dogs in this one. They are surounded by countries on all sides that would like nothing better than their total removal from the face of the earth. Countries with more money, better weapons, and more people. I guess above all I admire tenacity.
Depends who you compare them against. They're not in immediate conflict with Saudi Arabia, who are the only country near them that could reasonably be described as richer. They also have nuclear weapons, helicopter gunships, and a huge well-trained army, which is in marked contrast to the Palestinians who have a few suicide bombers but mostly just kids with rocks.

They also have a fairly extensive list of UN resolutions passed against them, none of which they seem to care in the slightest about complying with. Of course, when Arab countries don't comply, the West threatens to strangle them economically or bomb them back into the stone age, but last I checked the US wasn't sending stealth bombers to flatten Tel Aviv.

Point is, the situation is very complex. Both sides would like to cast themselves as the underdog. Is it plucky little Israel, surrounded by hostile neighbours we should be supporting? Or is it the Palestinians, ejected forcibly from their homes by overwhelmingly better supplied troops? Hard to say. And I don't think you or I really have enough data to make a good call.

[ozblonde]

Hey anton Im sorry if I kept you from school man but good luck with it all I hope you do well. You seem intelligent enough to do well anyway.

Aussie you can post where you like.

[Anton]

It's ok, I wasn't at school when I was actually in the discussion. I was suffering at home because I was ill. That's why i missed 2 weeks worth of work