My Heart Goes Out-

[Bassmama]

to the MORE than 7,000 that were killed in Southeast Asia when a wall of water over 30 feet high swept in. In some places it travelled over 2 miles inland. It was generated by an earthquake that measured 8.9.

Read about it here: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20041226/ap_on_re_as/indonesia_earthquake

[Diva]

I cried when I looked through those photos. The death toll is nearly 10,000 now.

[Bassmama]

As of this morning, the death toll is almost 20,000. This country was devistated when over 3,000 died in the WTC- imagine how it would feel if it were 20,000. SO sad.

[kittyroze]

Ever notice how in America when a natural disaster strikes, 15 people get killed, anywhere else in the world it's 15,000? What really gets me is how the news covers the Americans like crazy and mentions in passing those who have died in other countries.

[Ice Man]

I have to say that the new here this morning used a full hour discussing the quake and it's victums. It broke my heart.

[Bassmama]

The count is now over 22,000- many of them tourists. There is extensive coverage everywhere & it's breaking my heart every time I see it, too. Whole villages washed away, whole families lost,... Even Thailand's King lost his 21 year old grandson, who was playing on a jetski. Since it travelled at over 500 miles per hour, it would have been impossible to outrun. This is when you hug all the people you love & tell them that you love them. Life ends much too quickly sometimes to think you can wait to tell them.

[The Outsider]

yep, life is a MF... then you die. rather depressing when you dwell on it. I have lost 10 people close to me just this year, 1 being my stepdad and another my uncle. Then i found out Christmas morning that my grand dad MIGHT have prostate cancer, gramps says the doc didnt feel anything up there the first time, and hes just a pervert, but he still needs to be checked a 2nd time to be sure. christmas here was a dreary rainy day. a fitting end to a really shitty year. Then again, alot of good stuff has happened this year. The highs make the lows seem that much worse i guess.

[Bassmama]

Over 40,000 now. How horrible.

[Ice Man]

I agree, Bass. All we can do is help out where needed in cases like this. Things happen and we take life for granted. We should be living like today is the last day of our life. Smile at everyone, lend a hand, share our love with everyone and have sex like rabbits. I am still trying to get my wife to see my point on this matter. It still isn't working.

[Evilpoptart]

Here's what I don't get.......They can detect Earthquakes, and they can issue warnings for tidal waves......so WTF happened?

And I am sorry, but I don't want to get off on a rant here, but.....

WTF about the tens of thousands of people who die of starvation, of sickness, the AIDS epidemic in Africa, from abuse, from war........

It really pisses me off that everyone gets up in arms about this, yet this type of death en mass happens all the time....but its not on the 6 O'clock news, so no one cares.

35,000 people die EVERYDAY of starvation, and if you throw in waterborne illness and AIDS, that number is well over 50,000. THIS HAPPENS EVERYDAY PEOPLE!!!! EVERYDAY 50,000 of the poorest people on earth take a shit, because no one cares.

I don't mean to piss anyone off in particular, but this kind of stuff reminds me ALOT of that temporary patriotism after 9-11, which of course......is disgusting.

[Diva]

Evil: I think any show of care is a good thing. No one HAS to mourn exactly how you do. So what are you saying? I CANT be sad about them because other people also die? People die every day. I am saddened when I hear of the losses. Just because I am expressing sorrow over this event DOESN'T mean I don't care about the others. You shouldn't make assumptions about people like that. One reason why I loathe posting about tragedy is because someone always has to say shit about what THEY think is the correct way to mourn. Would you walk up to a family and say that the death of their loved one doesn't matter because people die every day? You want to know why people don't post about the tragedies that happen? Maybe it's because they don't want to get attacked by people who think it's just not good enough to be sad about one group. Mourn em all or don't mourn at all. That's bullshit.

As far as the earthquake is concerned... They detect it seconds before it happens. They did not have an adequate warning system in place, not that it would have helped at this point. It's just one of those horrible events that remind people how precious life is.

[Ice Man]

I think I agree with you my friend. I think however along with the media, when the new wears off of a tragedy, then the hype is dropped. Is that what you are saying?

[Evilpoptart]

What I'm saying is, that people ONLY give a shit, when its all over TV. and yes your right about the earthquake detection. However it takes upto 12 hours for a wave to hit shore. And as far as I know, its standard practice to issue warnings of said waves when a earthquake is detected out to sea. I just watched a program on them not to long ago.

I'm not trying to flame ANYONE. What I'm saying is that everyday tragedies happen, yet they get little or no spotlight or mention at all. Its just a funny part of human nature for people to rise up about one issue, while ignoring everything else thats been going on. I didnt see a thread about the 10 thousand people who died in Mexico a while back due to an earthquake, or the damage Mitch did to Central America, or the fact that as I type this, 500 plus species just went extinct.

Its just a pet peeve of mine thats all

[Diva]

I didnt see a thread about the 10 thousand people who died in Mexico a while back due to an earthquake, or the damage Mitch did to Central America, or the fact that as I type this, 500 plus species just went extinct.

Its just a pet peeve of mine thats allI understand what you are saying. I have posted many times about how media is like a dealer. They feed the public some injustice or horror and we react. The more media, the larger the reaction. You know my feelings on the press. But it's not fair to say that people should post about every tragedy or expect the same responses when they choose to post about one. The only way to bring about change is to be part of the solution... not problem. You could have posted about this subject. You could have posted about the tragedy in Mexico. I never tell people not to post about things that move them. Right now we are discussing one of the many tragedies that happened. It's a good thing, Evil. Now lets discuss more.


What I'm saying is, that people ONLY give a shit, when its all over TV. and yes your right about the earthquake detection. However it takes upto 12 hours for a wave to hit shore. And as far as I know, its standard practice to issue warnings of said waves when a earthquake is detected out to sea. I just watched a program on them not to long ago.I mentioned before about them not having a system in place. Here is a story about that. I posted some of the news report.

Asian officials conceded Monday that they failed to issue broad public warnings immediately after a massive undersea earthquake in Indonesia, which could have saved countless lives from the subsequent giant waves that smashed into nine countries as far away as Africa.
Also, Thailand's Meteorological Department said the country lacked an international warning system and proper coordination to get messages of impending disasters sent across the country.

"If we had the international warning system, we could give real-time warning to people," said Seismological Bureau official Sumalee Prachuab.
Governments around the region insisted they did not know the true nature of the threat because there was no international system in place to track tidal waves in the Indian Ocean -- where they are rare -- and they cannot afford to buy sophisticated equipment to build one.

And what warnings there were came too little, too late.

"No one ever told us that these things can be predicted and we can be told about them," said Sumana Gamage, a shopowner in Colombo, Sri Lanka. "Next time I hope our government can do this."

The magnitude 9.0 earthquake -- the largest in 40 years -- shifted huge geological plates beneath the sea northwest of Sumatra island, causing a massive and sudden displacement of millions on tons of water.
Indonesia villages closest to the temblor's epicenter were swamped within minutes, but elsewhere the waves radiated outwards, gathering speed and ferocity until they made landfall. The waves moved at speeds topping 500 mph.

Waves began pummeling southern Thailand about one hour after the earthquake. After 2 1/2 hours, the torrents had traveled some 1,000 miles and slammed India and Sri Lanka. Malaysia, the Maldives, Myanmar, and Bangladesh were also hit. Eventually they struck Somalia, on the east coast of Africa, where hundreds were reported killed.


"Unfortunately, we have no equipment here that can warn about tsunamis," said Budi Waluyo, an official with Indonesia's Meteorology and Geophysics Agency. "The instruments are very expensive and we don't have money to buy them."


It wasn't 12 hours... more like 2 1/2. Not that it matters... The people didn't get any warning until after the waves started hitting. It was early morning (9am) when the first warnings came... and that was by television. Hell, they don't even have a town cryer.

[Bassmama]

Over 55,000 dead & still growing. EPT- I care about it all- every death is horrible, be it from starvation, ethnic cleansing, murder, terrorism...

PLEASE don't take the following as sarcasm or nastiness- it is NOT meant like that. What are YOU doing to help? I was a VOLUNTEER Emergency Medical Technician for years- I went to classes for hours every week to get the certification & recertification & to go to the next level. I used MY time & money for gas & supplies to help people in my community. I can no longer do it due to osteoarthritis in my back, but I DO pick garbage up, & will help anyone I can whenever I can. If I had money, I'd be helping out that way.

I cannot do much, if anything, for everyone else around the world, but I CAN do whatever small thing I am able to in my community. This does not mean that I don't care- I do, DEEPLY. I just have an awful lot in my own life to deal with at the moment & am not able to do any more than I am.

Anyone that wants to can donate money to BONAFIDE organizations to help out. Even if it's only $5. Go here to find organizations to donate to:
http://www.networkforgood.org/topics/international/earthquake/tsunami122604.aspx?source=YAHOO&cmpgn=HMPCRS

That's what I'm doing, anyway.

The problem nowadays is that there's SO much horrible going on, which one do we pick? Doesn't mean we can't care about them all. BTW- I'm also upset about the Iraqi people whose lives have been torn apart & have lost family members because of our country declaring, and every family that loses a loved one in that foreign country.... If I kept listing, I'd never end. But such a HORRIBLY HUGE loss of life all from the same event ESPECIALLY hurts.

9/11 was horrible because of all of the above, plus because it was done IN OUR COUNTRY! It was brought home to us. BTW- you are VERY wrong if you think that it's been forgotten- you may not see as much in the media, because other horrors have taken the place as they happen, but there is NO WAY that people have forgotten 9/11.

Hopefully, the tragedy of this Tsunami will serve to put the rescue & safety alarms in place so that these tragedies do not EVER happen at this scope again. It has already gotten India & Pakistan & other countries that were at odds to start helping each other instead of fighting. Now if we could only keep that momentum going. Neighbors helping neighbors- it starts at home & ripples out from there- so, start at YOUR home. Make a difference where & when you can.

Go out for a couple of beers every weekend? Smoke cigarettes? Decide that for every $1 you spend on your own pleasure, you'll put in 50 cents for donations to someone who needs it. Got too much stuff around? Have a yardsale & give what you earn as a donation. There's a LOT you can do.

SUE

[Ice Man]

a bunch of rich people who can afford to vacation in Sri Lanka get swept out to sea and the world falls to it's knees. What about the ones that we know are in harms way? They are dying everyday.

[Fire]

Man, this thing is so HUGE...that many people..? It's so sad. I read on CNN or somewhere that a bunch of countries are donating millions each to help. It's just so BIG...it's scary..really makes you feel small.

[JakeD]

a bunch of rich people who can afford to vacation in Sri Lanka get swept out to sea and the world falls to it's knees. What about the ones that we know are in harms way? They are dying everyday.

What about the poor people who lived in Sri Lanka and its surrounding areas? You seem to be forgetting about all those. Last time I checked, they didn't have the richest per capita income around.

[Bassmama]

a bunch of rich people who can afford to vacation in Sri Lanka get swept out to sea and the world falls to it's knees. What about the ones that we know are in harms way? They are dying everyday.
It's NOT just a bunch of rich people- it's the poor people, old, young, & in-between people. There were islands whose inhabitants were tribes that were wiped out... It doesn't matter if the people had money or not- the loss of life is what is so terrible. The count is estimated to be over 100,000 before they're done. That doesn't count the ones that die from epidemics in the near future from the dead bodies, not to mention polluted water, no food, no medical treatment...

So, maybe when this happens, everyone around the world should ignore it? What about when this happens somewhere in our country?

:pullhair:

[JakeD]

I don't know where all these tourists suddenly came from, but from the photos I saw of the morgues and such, these were babies, the elderly...entire native families wiped out by this. I didn't see John and Jane Doe from Wherever, US or Whatevershire, UK as a lone survivor, crying about their dead family, dead neighbors, and the total obliteration of their home and those around it.


So, maybe when this happens, everyone around the world should ignore it? What about when this happens somewhere in our country?


Exactly. If the same thing happened to us and people gave us the same treatment that the earlier statement gives them, everyone would be really pissed off and up in arms. Never mind the fact that this is not just a nation, but a group of nations, AN ENTIRE COUNTRY, trying to rebuild itself and recover from this natural disaster...I hate it when people dismiss something until they find out that it somehow relates itself to them, and then all of a sudden it's a tragedy.

[JakeD]

A good link that I found on another site.
http://jlgolson.blogspot.com/2004/12/tsunami-video.html

[Amaurote]

It almost makes you want to sign Kyoto, doesn't it?


Okay, maybe not. That would obviously be too logical a proposition given the current political climate.

[Evilpoptart]

Well I guess its just my time to be the bad guy I guess.

Look, I think your all missing my point. Its simple. Tragedies that get media attention, people get up in arms about. If its not on CNN for 12 hours straight, no one cares. 35 thousand people die in Iran last year from an earthquake, it barely makes the evening news, and no one really says anything about it. Ivan kills 300 people in Puerto Rico, yet Florida gets more media cause 17 people died. 30 Thousand Iraqi civilians have died, yet Mt Saint Helens makes the news because its spitting out a little steam.

THATS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT

As for what I've done since for some reason I've been called out.....

I've worked over 10 food drives
Worked at numerous soup kitchens
Volunteered at the local hospital
Donated blankets and warm cloths to local drives for the homeless
Donated to Untied Way
Given Blood
Volunteered for political campaigns
Voted

Does that make me a better person than you? NO. Did I EVEN IMPLY IT DID? No.

And go ahead hate me for saying this, I don't care:

But no one will even give a shit about this in a few weeks anyway. Well most people won't. You see....Jerry Orbich just died, and I'm sure your local town has rapist on the loose, and some murder or whatnot. Pictures of the flood will soon be replaced by said news stories.

I'm just saying if your going to be globally aware.....then be globally aware. Its just a pet peeve when people do it half ass.

And I'm not saying that its people here, I'm just ranting in general. So don't think I'm pointing fingers, or calling someone out. I'm just goin on how Americans treat this kind of thing general.

[Amaurote]

Jerry Orbach's career is so confusing. Great actor, but he spent most of his life looking like a septuagenarian. When I heard the news, I thought: crikey, he must be at least two hundred, which must make the Law and Order franchize about eighty.

[Thaum1el]

a bunch of rich people who can afford to vacation in Sri Lanka get swept out to sea and the world falls to it's knees. What about the ones that we know are in harms way? They are dying everyday.

Oh, my G-d. One of my brothers best friends have disappeared down there. And so did a former boss of mine. "Rich people"? They're still people I care about.

[Amaurote]

I take your point, Thaum, but more broadly Ice Man and EPT do have a point: about a hundred thousand people have supposedly died over there and this morning's tabloids over here are dominated by pictures of Lord Attenborough. The West is now so parochial and morally bankrupt that it can only empathize with Third World misery by proxy - and via celebrities.

[Thaum1el]

It's still people, it's suppose to be, since it's the same person :/

[Thaum1el]

I can't disagree with that, which says something about media in the west, for sure. I get that point as well, of course.

Stalin once said "One death is a tragedy. A million deaths are a statistic."

Stalin was a bastard from hell, but he had a point. People are sick.

[Diva]

Stalin once said "One death is a tragedy. A million deaths are a statistic."

Stalin was a bastard from hell, but he had a point. People are sick.
That's one of my favorite quotes to use. People can visualize a dead person. Once the death toll rises they can only relate to statistics. I try to break it down personally. Each person was a loved one to someone. So much pain... and with the devistation it makes mourning even harder. *hugs Thaum* I am sorry for the loss of your friends.

[Thaum1el]

Thank you. I guess they are concidering all disappeared people diseased in Phuket now, more or less.

[Bassmama]

First- EPT- I WAS NOT pointing you out or flaming or anything else- I was more shaking EVERYBODY'S cage about doing something (donating money, time, etc.) The majority of our population seem to have that reaction- 'it doesn't affect me, so I don't give a damn.' BTW- my estimation of you has gone up quite a bit, EPT. I wish I was healthy & young enough to do what you're doing. If more people did, this world would be a better place.

I agree that the media is full of shit for the most part- if you look through the pictures in YAHOO about the Tsunami, you will see multiple pictures of GW in different poses, & multiple ones of the pope in different poses. (GW won out in numbers of pics.) Wasn't one or 2 enough? It's not about them.

Anyway, Thaum- my heart goes out to you, my friend. Keep us updated on things- especially how you're doing. You know where I am if you need to contact me.

I'm with Diva- I think about every one of those people, families, friends, neighbors... that lost someone they loved. The majority were natives of that country. And, yes- I care about anyone that goes through a tragedy like this- just because I don't bring it up doesn't mean that I don't care. I think a lot of people are like me. I can't seem to just shrug off others' losses & say "It doesn't affect me, so I don't give a shit."

BTW- I saw Jerry Orbach in the late '70s on Broadway in '42nd Street' & saw the news this morning that he'd died- and I feel empathy for him & his family, also. Given the reaction that this thread has seemed to engender, I was reluctant to mention it.

For those of you that don't care- skip this thread. No prob. I DO care & always have- not gonna change now.

[Evilpoptart]

It almost makes you want to sign Kyoto, doesn't it?


Okay, maybe not. That would obviously be too logical a proposition given the current political climate.
Funny how 180 or some shit countries can sign it.....yet the largest, richest, western power, and one of its chief sponsers in it conception, STILL hasn't ratified it.....

[Thaum1el]

Bassmama, I thank you very much. I got word yesterday that Phuket area has been kinda well searched, so now they regard people still missing there to be diseased, so I guess we have to deal. I'm allright, though, it's harder on my bro, who knew her better.

[Bassmama]

For anyone interested- this is the most complete site I found if you want to see videos, pics, & read some things about the Tsunami.

http://jlgolson.blogspot.com/2004/12/tsunami-video.html

http://waveofdestruction.org/

[Aldryic C'boas]

And I'm not saying that its people here, I'm just ranting in general. So don't think I'm pointing fingers, or calling someone out. I'm just goin on how Americans treat this kind of thing general.Well, you've got the right idea, but you're going about it the wrong way. While still a perfectly valid point, you simply chose a poor time to make it.

Oh, by the way, it's not just Americans that have this lifestyle. Ever travelled outside the US? (nearby Canadian/Mexican cities do not count). So far my travels and jobs have taken me to Africa, Bosnia, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, Russia, most of Europe, Korea.... you see where I'm going with this. The culture in this field is almost identicle...when America was dumbstruck by Columbine, over half of the rest of the world (and I'm not counting countries without TV) didn't have a clue what was going on. Sure, it made papers for a day....but it didn't happen there, so they didn't worry about it. And sure enough, they forgot completely days later as more news rolled around.

Long story short. Americans are not inferior to the rest of the world in terms of morals. You should start applying your comparisons on a grander scale. And yes, I'm quite aware of how many examples you can name of what's wrong with Americans. But since I'm guessing you can't do the same for at least 4 other countries without research, for a balanced comparison, it makes it a bit mudane and pointless. Of course, I could also be wrong, and you have done your homework, in which case I'll owe you my apologies. But I doubt it.

Hrm....looks like I'm ranting now. Nothing personal against you, mec, you just happened to hit one of _my_ pet peeves :P

[Evilpoptart]

Well, just because your a robot in this mans army, and have been overseas on some miltary bases, doesnt make you any more globally aware then the next guy.

Columbine wasnt shit, your missing my point. Do you ever watch the NEWS in a different country? or just the football they pipe in for soldiers via closed circut? Its treated ALOT differently then it is here. Watch CBC, BBC, Al Jazeera and etc. Its not all guns, murder, rape and car commercials. People actually get informed. Sure Columbine wasnt international news, but then again, I'm sure there were 56876439 events that day much worse in magnitude.

You claim to not want a pissing contest, well then maybe you need to reword said comments. Calling my world view into question, ESPECIALLY by a likely Bush voter, isnt a way to get aquainted. Starting sentences with the self righteous line of: Oh by the way doesnt cut it either dude.

Just cause your feet were somewhere mine were not doesnt make you any more educated on geo politics, just walking around with a bit more dirt on your shoes.

[Aldryic C'boas]

Perhaps, but it also means that I've got experience that you don't. And yes, I read newspapers from Russia, Iraq, Kuwait, Korea, Mongolia, and Japan pretty much daily. And yes, local papers that friends translate for me, not american-based papers in the area. No, I don't watch globalized news. They tend to skip over way too many important details due to time restraints. I highly recommend finding a good source for translated papers....they'll give you much better info than CNN ever could.

If you want to continue this, and possibly learn something from it, I suggest dropping the insults. And if you're going to dislike me, have the decency for disliking me for my opinions, not because I've fought to protect your rights to voice your dislike.

And no, I really don't care to hear whatever conspiracy theory stories you have cooked up about the "real reasons" behind my various deployments. No offense, mec, but either grow up or go bicker with someone else.

[Evilpoptart]

Well Mr. Bush, first off....

I dont watch CNN

I dont believe in conspiracy theories

Your right, I dont like you, and I am sure the feelings mutual

Unfortunately your reasons for the hate are because I talk to your GF. Whilst mine are much more based in the reality of the fact your an asshole.

I didnt graduate from high school last year

You did just get out of high school a year ago. Ok, maybe 2 years ago.

You havent fought any wars in Louisana

You dont have an english degree

Your 19, maybe 20, so you CANT have an english degree

For post number 2, you have balls

I should have picked a better place to voice my opinion about media and its influence

You've come to the wrong place if you think you can be an arrogant ass and not get retorts for it.

And thats all I am gonna say on that.

You wanna be 5 years old and /ignore me, thats fine. You WONT be missed.

[Diva]

Ummmm.... hi. Did I not just mention about flaming? No insults... We are all adults and I expect everyone to behave that way. If you have to take a personal shot then you need to rethink your point.

Also, ANY personal drama needs to be kept off of the forum. I don't expect everyone to be best buddies... but I DO expect everyone to at least be civil.

[Aldryic C'boas]

-sigh- Why do I bother. For the sake of clarity, here's your misinformed data.

It's not mutual. To hate you I'd have to know you.

No hate, and that wouldn't be a reason. You're free to talk to whom you please.

Wrong guess on my graduation, and my age.

Why would I be fighting a war in Louisiana?

I have three Associates Degrees, once from LSU and two from DLI. English Lit, Russian Lit, and French Lit.

The rest is not noteworthy.

I say again. Grow up, or move on. I'm not going to continue this immaturity any farther, so have a nice evening.


Edit: My apologies, Diva.

[Unforgiven]

Ummmm.... hi. Did I not just mention about flaming? No insults... We are all adults and I expect everyone to behave that way.

Diva ruins all the fun.

;)

[Amaurote]

"But hey, man, it's a dry heat!"

[Bassmama]

PLEASE!!!!!!! DO THIS SOMEWHERE ELSE! (PREFERABLY OFF THIS SITE & DEFINITELY OFF THIS THREAD!)

I started this thread out of compassion & heartache for all the people that are going through losing friends & family members in a HUGE horrifying event. Had I known that it would have turned into a forum to debate how horrible the press is (& I agree w/that), what political stance- from an insulting point of view- someone may or may NOT be coming from, how unimportant or important this tragedy is as compared to any or every other tragedy in the world, how the US compares to any other country, or whether someone's grandma wore red socks so she's better than someone else's that wore white socks, I never would have posted the thread. I did it because **I** feel reverance & compassion for all of those people & thought others on this site might need to talk about it & express their sadness, too & become informed about what happened. It does not mean that I think that this subject was more important than any other one, it happened & I posted about it. If someone else wants to start a thread about other events that they feel are horrible, go for it. But PLEASE KEEP THE BICKERING & FLAMING OFF OF HERE!

This thread was & is my way of honoring everyone connected to the 150,000 people that died. It's also my place to come express my sadness & grief & share it with people that I have come to view as my friends, so that we that need it can be comforted here- NOT hurt more.

And, just in case you guys forgot, one of our members is one of those people that is grieving- could you at least have enough respect for him & for Diva to NOT do this any more?

Thank you.

SUE

[Amaurote]

My apologies if anyone has already seen it, but db has just posted this (http://img138.exs.cx/img138/18/tsunamiaftermath0wf.jpg) on FS (please note - this is not a worksafe image).

[Bassmama]

Thanks, Am- this is one of the links in the second URL I posted earlier, but you have to look for it. Just horrible, isn't it?

Dead bodies never bothered me- the grief & heartache is what bothered me always. The fear many of these people felt in their last moments bothered me. The pain & horror that everyone & anyone connected to this- including those that are in rescue & recovery that will have to live with these memories for the rest of their lives- bothers me. The victims' deaths bother me, because of the pain caused by their deaths. Their pain is now over & they are onto whatever is after the death of their bodies, if there is anything, but the ripple of their deaths is still being felt around the world & will be for a very long time.

Also in the second URL is an example of how many 100,000 is, in little stick figures. It'll blow your mind when you see it.

[Thaum1el]

Of course the americans is not inferior on morals. IMHO it would be a sign of inferiority to claim that. Americans are people as well as all other people.

As for Columbine, it made top news for days in Sweden, just as school shootings in Germany etc. But I agree, for some reason us europeans, at least our media, seem to believe things like Columbine is "business as usual", sickly enough.

What I wanted to say is that when all is said and done, this is a big tragedy for people, as a matter of fact, it's a mess and tragedy for millions, not only direct victims, but indirect victims, who's been left homeless, and people who will become victims due to comming diseases.

As were Columbine and WTC tragedies. And I mourn with all who mourn, no matter if it's one victim or ten million victims, it's still a tragedy.

[Hilybeans]

It is a very big tragedy with what happened in Asia. I think it hits me hard though when it is a tragedy that could have been prevented such as, Columbine and The World Trade Centers. Then again tragedy's happen every day, some we just don't hear about.

[Evilpoptart]

I would just like to take a small moment of your time and apologize for said infractions.

It was never MY intentions to turn this discussion into some sort of medevil combat between myself and (deleted due to content).

We all are aware by now I'm sure, my greater point was how the media covered such events very sporadically. I should have placed it somewhere else, but then again, thinking ahead was never my strong suit.

However, never in any of my posts did I attack someone directly. Frankly, I know that kind of shit isnt tolerated here, like some other places (DOTcult anyone?)

So again, my apologizes. You won't be seeing me attack (edited for content) again. I think he can take care of slanting public opinion against him just fine himself, thank you much.

[Unforgiven]

Yeah, ya'll behave or I'll turn that thar hose on ya'll.

[JakeD]

Thaum sent me a few videos that were unbelievable. That and the photo gallery that Bassmama posted are chilling depictions of an ungodly amount of devastation that will take a long time to repair.

[Bassmama]

They figure that it will take over 10 years to 'recover'. Of course, they aren't talking about the mental & emotional toll that this disaster took.

YAHOO just reported that they found a fisherman "barely alive" under his boat. It's the first person they've found alive in 3 days. The government is no longer looking for survivors, they're trying to take care of the living now.

The sites I posted are constantly being added to as they get contents in. There are videos of the Tsunami coming in on these sites, also- from all sides of the Indian Ocean. The thing that caught so many people was that in most places, the waves came in as a surge instead of a huge wave. It came in fast & instead of stopping like a normal wave, it kept on coming. In some places they reported 6 waves.

Most of the still pictures are of the aftermath- heaped garbage, destroyed & heaped buildings, busses, vehicles, train & train tracks, everything you can think of. There are a few very graphic ones where you can see multiple bodies on the beaches & mixed in with the debris. (I'm explaining this for those who have dialup & can't view anything.)

[JakeD]

Yeah, it's fucking unbelievable...I'm hoping that they can just take care of the disease problem before anything. That's going to be the most difficult part, mainly because so many people don't have sufficient shelter. :(

[Bassmama]

Shelter, water, food... you name it. I looked at a BBC site about relief supplies being sent & delivered, & the flag of the USA was obvious on shoulders in quite a few pics. Made me proud that I live in the USA. Every country that participates in this should be proud! Amazing that it took something this horrible for India & Pakistan to stop fighting & start cooperating- Pakistan's government immediately pitched in to help, from what I read.

[Thaum1el]

Another, less pleasant, thing to take into aspect is that they will probably have to burn piles of bodies of humans and animals pretty sson. They have already had to make mass graves in some areas, because they don't have time or possibility to give everyone a descent burial.

This thing is bizarrely big. :/

[Bassmama]

Thaum- any news of your friends that were there?

[Bassmama]

LOTS of updates have been put on this site- www.waveofdestruction.org

[Evilpoptart]

I hereTailand is open for tourism again....

Also I heard something disturbing on PRI today.....countries are pulling funds from africa and the like in order to support the victims of this disaster.

Lets all do our best not to forget EVERYONE on this planet who is in need.......

[Bassmama]

My mom called me a little while ago & we were talking about the tsunami. She got a plea from some company begging for money for the releaf effort in SE asia. She hadn't heard about the company before, & asked if she should send them a check or not. I told her to send one to UNICEF or Save The Children or the Red Cross, but NOT one that she hadn't heard about before. Too bad that we have to watch out for scams when tragedies hit. Human nature REALLY sucks sometimes!

If the groups have started diverting money from other countries in need, that's not right, but I want to wait until I find out that it's a fact before I get ticked about it. BTW- some of the disaster areas are on the coast of africa. They are also hard to reach- could they maybe be diverting supplies to the coast from inland Africa?

[Thaum1el]

BM, assumed dead, no body.

What really disturbs me is that they arrested numerous people for looting corpses. Even from people who were there for humanitarian help. That pisses me off. There are some tempting features in the idea of wartime laws making the looting of corpses punishable by death.

[Evilpoptart]

If the groups have started diverting money from other countries in need, that's not right, but I want to wait until I find out that it's a fact before I get ticked about it. BTW- some of the disaster areas are on the coast of africa. They are also hard to reach- could they maybe be diverting supplies to the coast from inland Africa?

PRI = Public Radio International

Its a pretty reliable source of info, and one of my primary outlets. The program I was listening to was called Connections (http://theconnection.org/) They didnt mention any specific amounts, just that a few countries were going to divert funding and etc......Which countries? France, Germany and etc, possibly the United States too.

While all these needy people deserve our help, I don't think taking from one and giving to the other is the way to go about it. Maybe instead of a corporate tax break, or a 600 dollar screw for the new Euro Fighter or F-22, they can divert that funding to where its REALLY needed.

Just my 2 pennies

[Lilith]

Every time I check the news, the death toll just keeps rising. It is rather disheartening.

[Thaum1el]

Every time I check the news, the death toll just keeps rising. It is rather disheartening.

Exept for the Swedish expected deathtoll, which has actually sunk the last few days.

Hey Lils. *hugs* Where've you been, I've missed ya!

[Bassmama]

Yeah- the American one has dropped, too, but the Asian & all of the countries involved keep rising. :(

[Thaum1el]

I'm still having a problem with seeing death-tolls and aritmetric numbers of measurring this. Every single death, every single homeless, every single person who has lost someone is a tragedy...

Oh, before I post this, I should prolly disclaim: that was of course not aimed at anyone in particular, or us as a group, it's just a thought I had. Just so that noone think it was.

[Amaurote]

Bush’s insult to tsunami victims

By Alan Maass | January 14, 2005

WHAT THEY give with one hand, they take away with the other. U.S. government aid to the desperate victims of the Indian Ocean tsunamis is finally arriving. But it has strings attached.

As badly as the money is needed to keep people alive and rebuild, Washington’s conditions for disaster relief will make people’s lives worse in these countries--while helping to expand U.S. economic and military power over a devastated part of the globe.

By the beginning of this week, the official death toll from the tsunamis that struck a dozen countries December 26 had risen to 165,000--with Aceh in Indonesia alone reporting more than 110,000 victims, and tens of thousands more still missing. Plus, with heavy rains hampering relief efforts, aid workers warn that hundreds of thousands of people are still at risk of starvation and disease.

The tsunami horror produced an almost unprecedented outpouring of charity from around the world. One moving example: Some 800 Malaysian prisoners, including 18 on death row awaiting execution, donated their tiny savings from prison jobs to help the victims. The prisoners earn almost nothing for prison labor, but hundreds decided to give away money meant to help them start a new life.

Compare that to the Bush White House, which had to be shamed into responding at all. At first, the White House said it would donate $15 million--less than one-third of what Republicans plan to spend on their mega-party to celebrate Bush’s inauguration--while Bush himself couldn’t break away from his leisurely “post-Christmas” vacation to offer any sympathy.

Washington had to increase its promise of aid more than 20 times to the current $350 million--and that’s still less than 10 percent of the total billion pledged by the world’s richest countries at a summit in Indonesia last week.

Now, U.S. officials are bragging about their generosity, with Colin Powell and Bush’s baby brother, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, traveling to Asia for photo ops in front of scenes of destruction.

The story that isn’t being told is how the U.S. and other powerful governments are using disaster relief to advance their political and economic agendas. The most obvious example: The U.S. requires that much of its foreign aid be spent on medicines, agricultural products and manufactured goods imported from the U.S.--no matter how costly they are compared to locally produced alternatives.

Overall, reports the Asia Times newspaper, “Relief organizations have calculated that as much as 75 percent of foreign aid is directly tied to trade access or other economic and political strategies. Some comes with so many strings attached, including preferential tendering on contracts and the hiring of consultants, that only 30-40 percent of dollar value is ever realized.”

That’s if the money ever shows up. Last month, Iranian President Mohammad Khatami complained that of the $1.1 billion pledged in disaster aid after a devastating earthquake in 2003, only a tiny fraction--$17 million--had arrived. After Hurricane Mitch struck Central America in 1998, governments and international institutions promised nearly $9 billion for relief and reconstruction. Five years later, less than a third of the money had arrived.

Meanwhile, the U.S. isn’t missing an opportunity to gain an advantage in its worldwide “war on terror,” either.

The media splashed flattering pictures of U.S. Navy helicopters taking part in the relief effort in Aceh across their front pages. But these images will have a different meaning to the Acehnese, who have suffered for decades under the brutal rule of the Indonesian military--which is backed by the U.S. and historically provided with the latest equipment by the Pentagon.

In fact, the Bush administration is taking advantage of the tsunami disaster to relax restrictions on military aid to Indonesia imposed during the 1990s because of widespread human rights abuses committed in rebel areas like East Timor and Aceh. Administration hawks like Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz have been trying to ditch these restrictions--in order to help out an “ally” in the the “war on terror.”

During his tour of the capital of Banda Aceh, Powell was silent about reports that the Indonesian military was continuing its dirty war in Aceh--but spoke volumes when he promised to lift the ban on providing spare parts for military transport planes. As Tom Malinowski of Human Rights Watch concluded, “The Indonesians get the message when you have no high-level condemnation of what they’re doing.”

The horrifying images of the tsunami disaster and its aftermath have moved countless people to want to do something. But for the U.S. government, it’s business as usual--exploiting another opportunity to put Corporate America’s profits first, and to extend the grip of the U.S. military.

RIGHT WINGERS were furious when a United Nations official labeled the U.S. government as “stingy” in its response to humanitarian disasters. But that’s the truth--the richest country in the world is the stingiest when it comes to foreign aid. The U.S. government gave just 0.12 percent of U.S. gross domestic product in foreign aid from 2001 to 2003, ranking it below every other industrialized nation.

Washington looks like even more of a miser when you look at who gets the money. Of the $16 billion budgeted for official development assistance, most went to loyal allies carrying out U.S. military and political objectives--like Israel, Egypt and Colombia. Recent increases in the foreign aid budget aren’t a sign of generosity, but the result of money spent on the “war on terror”--from aid packages to woo countries like Pakistan, to upgraded security at U.S. facilities overseas.

Last year, the U.S. government spent just $2.4 billion on humanitarian aid for the whole world. The state of Florida alone got almost six times that in emergency funding after last summer’s four hurricanes. All in all, the U.S. spends about as much on humanitarian aid as Washington’s war makers spend in a week and a half on the occupation of Iraq.

Source (http://www.socialistworker.org/2005-1/526/526_12_Tsunami.shtml)

"The country is an amazing paradox. In other lands, when a man eats to his fullest day after day, that man becomes fat...sleepy...piggish. But in this land...it seems the more you have the more aggressive you become. You see? Like Mr Sawyer. With so much, yet he begrudges you a few crumbs from his table. Also like a child at a birthday party, who will push away another baby even though he himself can eat no more. Is it not so?"

Barlow, Salem's Lot

[Evilpoptart]

Just remember Am, 49% of us voted no on Bush

While I am sure we have never been steller on relief and aid, I am sure under the current admin, its even worse.

Also, I find it funny, though while we may be the richest country in the world, our national debt is nothing to shake a stick at, same with trade deficits.

Again, these things dont get us off the hook, but it does shine a little light on this issue.

[Amaurote]

Just remember Am, 49% of us voted no on Bush


No, and I'm not suggesting the contrary, EPT, but the fact is that the compassionate conservatives are the masters now; and now, as ever, we see just how compassionate they are. I can imagine their protestations: "Ah, yes, but we believe in free choice, charity should be elicited through voluntary means, not fiscally like in those fag pinko communist Scandinavian countries."

Well, sorry, but that tired, pathetic old excuse just doesn't pass muster any more. There isn't anything more unedifying than the spectacle of a Government - and Bush is merely the worst, not the only offender - evading its moral responsibilities in the aftermath of a catastrophe like this.

[Evilpoptart]

Yep

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v456/evolpoptart/Bush.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v456/evolpoptart/bush_piss2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v456/evolpoptart/bushlordofthering.jpg

[Amaurote]

I am extirpatering the weevil terroristical menace that threatens the borders of our majesticalled nation:

[Evilpoptart]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v456/evolpoptart/Bush_-_Evil_Empire.jpg

Now, thats a keeper

[Amaurote]

:

[Evilpoptart]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v456/evolpoptart/drevil.jpg

Now, just to make a mini me cheney

[Amaurote]

Coronation, Texas-style

Andrew Stephen

Monday 17th January 2005 [sic]

With US soldiers dying in Iraq, he could have kept it low-key. Instead, he wants $40m worth of balls, parades, bad food and military display. It says a lot, writes Andrew Stephen

They say that a presidential inauguration sets the tone for the forthcoming term in office. How depressing if that turns out to be the case for 2005-2009: I have several close friends, including one senior official who was in the Clinton administration, whose dread and foreboding are such that they will actually be leaving town for the 18-21 January festivities.

No fewer than 35,000 people, most of them local fundraisers and donors to the Bush-Cheney campaign, will be pouring in to Washington to attend nine inauguration balls at $150 per person - dreadful, sweaty events, where drink is scarce and harassed waiters struggle to shuttle bad food to too many tables. Those attending delude themselves that they have finally penetrated the heart of Washington power, receiving an aphrodisiacal frisson as they watch their president dance with his beloved wife (in fact, Bush is not a dancer and, I predict, will spend only two or three minutes at each ball: he has his 9.30 bedtime to consider, after all).

We will be awash with Dick Cheney 2005 calendars (showing the great man fishing, riding a horse and so on), 3,000 Stetson hats that are being brought in by the Stetson hat company in Garland, Texas, and thousands of pairs of hastily turned-out cowboy boots. The official "champagne" of the celebrations will be Korbel, not actually champagne but an ersatz sparkling substitute from California. Guy Hovis, a 63-year-old former crooner on The Lawrence Welk Show (Welk was a purveyor of "easy- listening music" in the television series that began in 1955), will sing a song written by John Ashcroft, the outgoing attorney general. "Televi-sion fixture Kelsey Grammer" will MC a "salute-to-the-military" concert that will foreshadow the inauguration's "Celebrating Freedom, Honouring Service" theme.

Enough said? It also says much about Bush and his administration, I fear, that the inauguration festivities are being held at all. A conservative estimate is that this 55th inauguration will cost a record $40m, not including the $17.3m in security and related costs that will be charged to the beleaguered taxpayers of Washington. This is at a time when even Bush loyalists in DC are beginning to wring their hands over Iraq, and when the tsunami is still fresh in people's minds; unlike Bush, Bill Clinton spent less on his second inauguration than on his first, and FDR marked his wartime fourth term with a White House lunch of chicken salad and pound cake, while Woodrow Wilson deemed it "too frivolous, too undignified" to have a ball.

No such self-doubt will spoil the boy prince's big week. Bush's lack of awareness of what is happening outside his bubble says much about how he views the world: he believes it is a great, almost mystical, achievement that he has overcome multiple adversities to become president and reign over all of us. We must therefore celebrate. What makes this worrying is that his self-confidence is so brittle: in his past 18 years of sobriety he seems to have masked whatever were the underlying causes of his alcoholism with an aggressive, simplistic insistence that the world is divided into the moral and the immoral, the black and the white, the dangerous bogeymen constantly threatening to overturn all that is good.

The Iraq war may now be costing $1bn a week, but Laura Bush will still be wearing "an ice-blue and silver embroidered tulle V-neck dress with a matching duchess satin coat by Seventh Avenue designer Oscar de la Renta" - which, the Washington Post thankfully assures us, will be "youthful and feminine, not sexy - the epitome of good taste". And Mrs Bush can also be sensitive in a way that fits with the times: her other outfit will suggest "a certain chic understanding that restraint can be the most powerful form of expression". Thank heavens for that.

Though the Bushes are sticklers for what they see as order, dreamily returning in this way to the reassuring conformities of The Lawrence Welk Show and the Fifties, they are still hobbled by the shadows of the much more heavyweight first President Bush and his matriarchal wife Barbara; official invitations to the coming events break all the etiquette protocols of their world by invoking "President and Mrs Laura Bush" (rather than the apparently correct "President and Mrs Bush") - because it was feared recipients might think the invitations were from the elder Bush and his wife.

Thus, even at the inauguration, Dad remains a looming presence. Indeed, the younger Bush is still overcompensating for the Oedipal nightmares about his father that friends tell me he cannot expunge; his fears of not measuring up then translate into major presidential decisions and actions. The latest outburst of petulance is to have General Brent Scowcroft, Bush I's national security adviser, sacked summarily from the chairmanship of the president's foreign intelligence advisory board. Had Scowcroft, a devoutly religious man, kept quiet about Iraq, he would have survived; but he committed the cardinal sin of voicing his deep concerns about civil war there, first privately to Bush and only then publicly. Loyalty is thus the only "character" trait that Bush is able to see as important. Competence is not. The word "realist", says Scowcroft, has now become a pejorative in Bushworld.

Now we are seeing attempts by Bush to exorcise those familial and personal legacies by spinning increasingly ludicrous myths about himself. You might think that a man who hails from a family built on Wall Street speculation and oil, who was a grandson of a US senator, the eldest son of a president, who went to Andover and Yale despite a poor academic record, who was a member of the Skull and Bones secret society at Yale, as was his father and grandfather before him - and so on - might concede that he has had a leg-up or two in the past from his family background.



Not a bit of it. Bush sees himself as somehow having come up the hard way, identifying with the totally fictional story he weaved when he appointed Bernard Kerik, a former New York police commissioner, to be director of homeland security on 3 December. He presented Kerik as an authentic rags-to-riches pioneer who was a hero of 11 September 2001; the wretched man, who withdrew from his nomination on 11 December, was actually a scumbag who was wildly unsuitable for the job on practically every count. He had used a Manhattan flat donated for the use of exhausted 9/11 police for extramarital trysts, made $6.2m from a stun-gun company while still in office and is now being investigated for "ties" to mob crime. But Bush preferred a romanticised version that accorded with the way he sees the world; reality could not be allowed to intrude.

Heartbreakingly banal and stultifying though these inauguration celebrations are sure to be, they will certainly tell us more about what we can expect during the second term of the country's 43rd president. We now know that he is a man who resolutely clings to myths rather than reality, who gravitates to shielding, garish pageantry while genuinely believing he is being "dignified and classy". He values loyalty to the cause above all else, and sees himself as that biblically ordained cause.

He never forgets a slight, either, and as with Scowcroft, comes down hard on those who offend his notions of the right and proper obeisance due his kingdom.

Even more worryingly, the festivities' inordinate display of grand-scale militarism will involve Kelsey Grammer introducing much footage of Soviet-style celebrations of US military might, of aircraft carriers cutting gloriously through the waves and Stealth fighter jets turning thrillingly in midair. Bush and Cheney, those two intrepid draft-dodgers, will observe a military flypast from the Ellipse and will then review troops before the inaugural parade - which will feature a stream of military bands, caissons rumbling majestically along, hundreds of motorcycle outriders and uniformed guards in sunglasses toting machine-guns (I know because I have seen them rehearsing).

I will be at just one inauguration event, a reception at the Phillips Gallery that neither Bush nor Cheney will, I feel reasonably confident, be attending. The Four Seasons Hotel, a skip and a jump from me, is meanwhile offering an eight-night package for $100,000. The Ritz-Carlton has sold 385 of its 386 rooms, but is keeping that last suite open for four nights at $150,000. Money will thus be made, myths propagated, and the poor food and pervasive tackiness will send many away disappointed. But the second term of President George W Bush will have got under way in precisely the manner in which it means to go on.

(New Statesman)

------

Interesting: I think the inauguration ceremony is going to look a little bit like the final scene where Palpatine reviews the troopers in Attack of the Clones.

[Bassmama]

157,000 & rising still.

When did this government & our people turn into opportunist egomaniacs that feed off of weaker, less fortunate people without giving a damn? As long as it benefits them in the long run, they'll do it. IMHO that money/aid should be given open hearted & WITHOUT strings.

How about doing something just because of compassion & love of other human beings? I guess I shouldn't be too shocked- considering the con/bait & switch this government has done on it's own people for YEARS. I just have SUCH a hard time believing that 51% of our population is so FUCKING ignorant!

BTW- people that live in this country: that's OUR FUCKING MONEY that he's spending on his 'coronation ceremony'- I don't know about you, but it bothers the SHIT out of me!

This isn't aimed at anyone, so before arguing with me, don't take it personally.

BTW- I LOVE your photoshopping! Thanks, guys.

www.waveofdestruction.org has a LOT more updated files, reports, movies, pics on it.

[dynamitt]

Evil was saying that there are ppl dying from other disasters then tusmani and that we should care more about that too. I agree, but the diffrence for me with tusmani is that I have friends in almost all the countries effected.... I still havent been able to track down three of them - but I really, really hope they r fine.

My bf is from Maldives, so we spent some nerwrecking hours trying to get in touch with his family and to make sure that they were all ok. Luckly they are all fine.

What is good though is to see how much people here in australia care. Every where you go there are people collecting money, sining on the street, having year sale etc for the tausmanin victims. Also a foundrising event on tv - going on for about two hours brought in around 15 million while the show lasted - but since people where able to contribute after as well the funds keep coming in - the last number i heard were some more the 20 millions... Makes me real proud of living in this country.

[Thaum1el]

Sweden, as in the Swedish people, has also been great. Makes me proud of being a swede. :)

[Bassmama]

ANY country that helps out should be proud. It's not the people of the country that act like fuckwads, it's the government officials that are. Unfortunately, that makes everyone in the country look guilty by association. Also unfortunately, 51% of this country's population have bought the Bush admin.'s con & re-elected him.

Again- if there are issues & tragedies that anyone wants to start a thread about, feel free. Just because someone else doesn't bring it up doesn't mean you can't if you want to- just means that noone did yet. It also doesn't mean that noone cares, either. The tsunami is such a HUGE tragedy & involving so many countries & people that it's a worldwide news story.

[Thaum1el]

For more information how our fuckwads of the Foreign Ministry and the Foreign Ministry handled this, check out my blog at http://thaumiel.blogspot.com

[Amaurote]

For more information how our fuckwads of the Foreign Ministry and the Foreign Ministry handled this, check out my blog at http://thaumiel.blogspot.com

That is very interesting, but it's not as unusual as you might think, Thaum: the UK tabloids are currently full of horror stories of stranded British tourists who contacted the High Commission to get emergency visas and transport and were summarily brushed off. One family had nothing left but the swimming trunks they were wearing, were issued with a legally meaningless promissory note by the HC: when they contacted the HC agan an official s******ed and allegedly said, "Well, your relatives are rich, surely they can do something" and rang off. It now becomes clear that the British Foreign Office has gained a certain international notoriety for not giving a damn about British tourists or ex-pats in trouble, risk or danger. The response of the German government in contrast was prompt, generous and efficient. The days when Lord Palmerston nearly took us to war over Don Pacifico are well and truly gone.

[Amaurote]

Has anyone seen the tsunami headline in the Onion's In the News section this week? My eye, that was funny.

[Bassmama]

Why don't you post it?