Sleep-Deprivation leads to new topics

[Waldo]

Anyone believe that that they possess Free-will? I'll let you answer before I rip into you... or agree with you. Whichever. I haven't decided yet.

[Diva]

Seems a bit vague for me, so here's my answer. I do believe that people have free will. The choices that they make comes down to inner strength, desires.

Peer pressure is nothing more than wanting to be accepted. The key is being accepted on your terms or theirs. The ultimate choice is yours.

[The_Roach]

I also agree with free will as a concept. Granted, if Freud is correct, my actual free will is limited by my ego. I would say that only the truly unbalanced would have actual free will in Freudian terms. And only for so long, until the egos of others impede the lunatic. How's that for global consciousness...

Of course, this also leaves out the possibility of a "divine entity", fate, or other more mystical concepts.

[LucifersChild]

free will=a big joke.. although i do what i want when i want, and basically do as i please, there are still restrictions. always. when i got with my new lil lady, i realized i had no free will left :D im now doing things she *likes* ::runs off quickly, before the shame takes over::

bah, everyone has free will. the problem is consequences. barring unnatural activities like flying up into space with just your shoes and a smile, you have the ability to do as you please, when you please. now bring it on waldo, or anybody for that matter. i love a good fight.

[The_Roach]

Originally posted by aussie
Well I guess I sold my free will the day I got a house and the accompanying loan. I then aquired a dog and that was the last of my free anything. The dog and the bank both decide what I do and when I do it.
Aussie, these are restrictions to your free will that you allow, things that make you comfortable. You could leave them behind at any time, if you so willed it.

[Jennafer]

I don't believe we have free will. I believe, that I think I have it, but really don't. I feel like a puppet sometimes. :confused:

[aussie]

Well I guess I sold my free will the day I got a house and the accompanying loan. I then aquired a dog and that was the last of my free anything. The dog and the bank both decide what I do and when I do it.


Originally posted by TheRoach

Aussie, these are restrictions to your free will that you allow, things that make you comfortable. You could leave them behind at any time, if you so willed it.

We can all walk away from our responsibilities but that would leave us all to deal with our concience. Thus if your concience wont allow it there goes your free will. Neglecting my dog or leaving a bill unpayed requires a lack of morals not an abundance of free will

[Amaurote]

Of course not. Free Will has been comprehensively disproved these past three centuries. I'm amazed that this debate still arises, in fact. Free Will is vitally extant only as a Catholic dogma; as a philosophical notion it's been utterly refuted. Hobbes crushed it in Leviathan.

I'll paraphrase it for you, Waldo:

(1)

Do you choose your choices? Do you choose your choice of choices? Do you choose your choice of choice of choices? Ad nauseam.

(2)

Do you choose your desires?

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You have two options: be human, and determined; or have Free Will, and be something else.

[The_Roach]

Originally posted by aussie


We can all walk away from our responsibilities but that would leave us all to deal with our concience. Thus if your concience wont allow it there goes your free will. Neglecting my dog or leaving a bill unpayed requires a lack of morals not an abundance of free will
When did morals enter into the picture? Maybe it's just that I don't have a dog or something, but I could easily walk away from all of my responsibilities if that's what I wanted. Morality isn't even a factor in that.

And you could always find the dog a nice home, and tell your creitors that you are ceasing to recieve service from them. You don't have to just completely walk away without preparation. That's your choice too.

[aussie]

Originally posted by TheRoach

When did morals enter into the picture? Maybe it's just that I don't have a dog or something, but I could easily walk away from all of my responsibilities if that's what I wanted. Morality isn't even a factor in that.

And you could always find the dog a nice home, and tell your creitors that you are ceasing to recieve service from them. You don't have to just completely walk away without preparation. That's your choice too.

Equally I ask when did morals become divorced from free will? Perhaps its a difference in our make up or upbringing but I could never contemplate something so abhorent as to walk away from an obligation to an animal or a debt. You dont take on an animal just to ditch it once you decide you dont want it. You dont enter into a twenty year contract to buy a house just to walk away because you change your mind.
However I agree any of us can just walk away from anything any time we want. I just feel that PERSONALLY for me to do so would require a lack of morals not an abundance of free will. The good thing about a forum such as this though is the range of views presented. I respect yours but could never make them my own. Loyalty is a thing that was always stressed to me as a child and that takes pride of place over all else. Be it loyalty to a partner, a friend, an animal, or even your creditors, once comitted there is only comitment

[The_Roach]

Originally posted by aussie
Loyalty is a thing that was always stressed to me as a child and that takes pride of place over all else. Be it loyalty to a partner, a friend, an animal, or even your creditors, once comitted there is only comitment
I agree that it's an admirable attitude to have towards such things. It is one I hold to as well. The point had nothing to do with your personal ethics on the matter, the question was whether or not free will existed. You stated that it didn't because of your moral obligations. I pointed out that it has nothing to do with morals at all.

You are not limited by society, you are only limited by yourself.

[berly]

You, Roach...have no free will - therefore:

*berly waves hands at Roach in hypnotic like manner*

You have no choice but to come to my house and let me prove just how much free will you DON'T have...uh..I think I'm one of those lunatics you referenced when you first responded to this? =)