View Full Version : Same Sex Rights
With all the hoop-la about legalizing same sex er... sex, I thought I'd like to know where you stand about giving same sex relationships ALL the rights that heterosexual relationships enjoy.
Any discussion is welcome.
ADDITION: All rights mean legal, taxes, medical, financial and retirement.
kittyroze
06-28-03, 06:10PM
A couple is a couple, regardless of what sex, dammit.
I may not agree with homosexual couples orlesnian couples, but that has absolutly nothing to do with what rights they should get. If two people are in love with each other, that's all that matters. Male & female, male & male, female & female, it doesn't matter. Love is love. If someone wants to raise a family, nothing should stop them from doing so.
Yes of course. Belgium just legalized same sex marriages.
I heard that in certain US states same sex couples are not allowed to have sex ever in their own house !?!?! :eek:
Yes, you are right. It is being voted on now to leagalize it. I added to the original post so that people understand what I mean. Right now even though it may not be illegal to be with a same sex partner, they have no couple rights.
Well, I have to stand by my beliefs and say.............
BIG FAT NO!
Is scripturally wrong, and as I don't want to get another religious disscussion; I am leaving this topic alone.
Redallnite
06-30-03, 09:12PM
I wonder when they wrote the orginal, " All rights mean legal, taxes, medical, financial and retirement." Why weren't, "same sex couples included during the orginal writings?". Just because being in, "the 21st" century means whatever "out of that dusty closet", means nothing..... Their were just as many same sex couples then, well maybe not. But why wasn't it written when the first one was........????? Why is it so different now vs. when it was first written??
warza bidul
07-02-03, 01:46AM
because society has changed from being about perpetuating the species to doing whatever it pleases, one of those being marriage etc.
kittyroze
07-02-03, 12:37PM
Exactly, times change. Only prostitutes wore makeup back in the day...only white males were allowed to vote. As we realize and come to understand our hidden biases and prejudices over the years, we need to change outdated laws and standards.
whoa nelly...
our compromise of our standards is why there are no manners, no morals and no compassion towards those in need.
greed, selfishness and laziness rule this country. Freedom was saught after for religious reasons and has been...........
* Ice Man is mad and walks away pouting
kittyroze
07-02-03, 12:50PM
I think couple rights and the decay of society are two different things. Parents aren't doing their job anymore, thusly people have no respect for their fellow human.
As for morals, they don't have to be based off of a religious belief. I've known some amazingly honest, upstanding atheists.
Everyone has their right to their religion, but we're trying to keep religion and politics at least semi seperate. If you don't believe in same sex couples, then don't be part of one :)
* Ice Man holding fingers in ears..........."WRONG, I TELL YOU" puter shooter is exit only and should remain that way.
* Ice Man ducks and darts for the door.........
kittyroze
07-02-03, 02:13PM
And that's your opinion and thusly is valid.
But in terms of policies, I don't think that it should be forced on others.
On the matter of same-sex marriages, I'm all for equal rights. My uncle was in a relationship with the same man for 10+ years, worked, helped pay for the house & new truck. His "husband" decided to trade him in for a new model, kicked him out of the house w/ not much more than his clothes & a few personal belongings. That wasn't right, and it sucked that there was nothing he could do about it (other than next time know not to put everything in your partners name. in his defence, he was in love, yaddayaddayadda).
As for the country's morals, the rightness/wrongness of homosexuality, and the country's foundation on freedom, especially religion.... Well, that's not freedom of the approved, accepted religion, it's all religions, even if you personally don't agree/believe in them.
I understand you point, Kitty. If someone can stand and say gaypower, then I most surely stand against that. That is my right. I fought for that right. As a United States Marine, I saw alot worse things to discussions upon.
However, if given the oppurtunity I will stand tall and say it all over again. I don't condem or judge the sexually challenged individuals who would rather be of the opposite gender. That's as far as I can go with that subject without going all out preacher on you.
Take it for what you will, I still love ya no matter what!
PhoenixFire
07-03-03, 09:40AM
2 penises don't make a vigina nor does 2 viginas make a penis.
Thus, this does NOT justify the definition of a "couple".
Base on my theory, I've have to conclude: NO!
If we weren't made to reproduce, we would be the same sex and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
-eom-
...mud-packers should be shot!
Hey I like this Phoenix dude..........except for the shooting part. I would rather pray the freakin demons out of them that are possessed with such fearsome freakish.............
arrrrgggggghhhhhhhh.....now look what ya gone and done........
kittyroze
07-03-03, 11:52AM
I'd like to think that we are above things like that. That because we have such a high level of brain power, the ability to have excellent cognative reasoning skills that we would be above things like gender. Sex shouldn't matter. Men and women should be treated like equals...thusly the distinction of man and woman should not be made in a lot of instances. Employment for example...one shouldn't have to put male/female on applications, and they don't. Couples...which to me are two people united by love, affection, commitment and trust should be gender neutral as well. Without taking sex into account at all. I don't care if "the bits don't fit up right". I don't know where you got the definition of couple, Phoenix...but one vagina and one penis certainly isn't part of my definition. To me, it's a higher way of thinking. Of truely accepting people for their personalities, not physical traits. I'd like to believe we're all above just "fucking and reproducing". I am all about gay rights...and I feel I'm as justified and morally grounded as anyone else. Saying someone should be shot is close/simple minded and hickish. At least bother to give me your reasons...expound on them. Maybe then we could discuss. Rather than slap eachother in the face with "this is my condensed opinion, no arguements please".
Here's a little snippet from a man I adore on the recent ruling...
Mark Morford-SFGate
In other words, maybe this is not, as the GOP so desperately wants everyone to believe, about icky "deviant" sex and unholy gay marriage and blasphemous anal-sex toys at all. Maybe the change is about the potency of love. About the natural explorations of love in nature, of human relationships and the freedom to explore and let love penetrate our lives and make the divine into something we can touch, taste, slide into and, ultimately, incarnate.
His full article is here... http://www.sfgate.com/columnists/morford/
Originally posted by PhoenixFire
2 penises don't make a vigina nor does 2 viginas make a penis.
Thus, this does NOT justify the definition of a "couple".
Base on my theory, I've have to conclude: NO!
If we weren't made to reproduce, we would be the same sex and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
-eom-
...mud-packers should be shot!
I don't see much of a theory there. I'd have to completely concede with Kitty on the idea that we should all be above humping like rabbits. For one thing, this world is overpopulated enough as is, and if anything, same-sex couples are doing us a favor by not knocking each other up. Plus, some of them are brave enough to adopt children and most prove to be better parents than a hetero couple ever thought about being. Being a couple is more than sex. It's love, emotions, feelings....What if you were gay? Would you go around saying "A penis and a vagina do not make a....wait, what the hell was I talking about in the first place? I don't even know..." Exactly.
And I'm just going to totally ignore the bass-ackwards comment about shooting "mud-packers". What if someone decided to shoot people who called themselves "PhoenixFire"?
* Ice Man thinks maybe he will go to his bunker and await the arrival of this higher level thinking person with his arsenal.
Just joking now, don't jump on me. My back hurts.
*blinks* Uh, hi PF. Interesting point of view. You've got kind of a 'Deliverance' thing going on there. Good to see you posting.
If two vaginas did equal one penis... all you'd have is a dick. One dick doesn't equal a couple.
Dictionary [dot] com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=8&q=couple) has this to say:
cou·ple ( P ) (kpl)
n.
Two items of the same kind; a pair.
Something that joins or connects two things together; a link.
(used with a sing. or pl. verb)
Two people united, as by betrothal or marriage.
Two people together.
Desciple... I don't want to know what you do in your home. It's non of my business. I feel the same way about other people and hope that you do, too. We have a right to privacy. We have a right to freedom of religion. Most of all, it is not up to the law to tell us what we can and cannot do in the privacy of our own homes. Do you really think that the government can tell you what sexual activities you can and cannot do? Anal sex aside... they are also talking about fellatio. No more blow jobs. Maybe you won't care... but I know quite a few guys that will be mighty pissed if they don't get their hummer. Sexual positions. By your laws we could be 'forced' to missionary style. When will they stop? When is it too much? The government needs to stay out of the bedroom, PERIOD.
This discussion is about rights for same sex couples. Jred brought up a perfect example of why it is unequal. For someone to be unable to put aside their sexual preference and bible thumping to look at two sexless people who are in a relationship and what is legally the right thing to do... it's pretty sad. You can preach to your heavens about what you believe in. in the end ONLY YOU are judged. G-d does not rate you by how many people you condemn for what you think should be right. That is G-d's job. Yours is to live by the bible and try and play nice. Or do you get points for condemning people?
Originally posted by Diva
Desciple... I don't want to know what you do in your home. It's non of my business. I feel the same way about other people and hope that you do, too. We have a right to privacy. We have a right to freedom of religion. Most of all, it is not up to the law to tell us what we can and cannot do in the privacy of our own homes. Do you really think that the government can tell you what sexual activities you can and cannot do? Anal sex aside... they are also talking about fellatio. No more blow jobs. Maybe you won't care... but I know quite a few guys that will be mighty pissed if they don't get their hummer. Sexual positions. By your laws we could be 'forced' to missionary style. When will they stop? When is it too much? The government needs to stay out of the bedroom, PERIOD.
Well, you are correct Diva. I don't wish to go into the details of my marital sex life. However, I will tell you that when I said "I do" , she said " I have a headache".................LOL
My opinions are just that my opinions. No one can change them but me. I appreciate the opinions of others on all view points and yet somehow wonder why I get hammered for having the conservative religious view. Everyone has their beliefs, yet my are wrong? Or am I incorrect in believing the way that I do? I don't think so. I try to live a christian lifestyle. I don't always succeed at this. But that's when I have to pick myself up and ask forgiveness and continue on.
I know you don't like preaching and people have said because I post something of a religious nature that I am forcing my views upon him. Doesn't that work both ways?
IT'S WRONG. God made woman to be the companion of man.
That is all that I am saying about this subject for now.
Originally posted by Desciple
I understand you point, Kitty. If someone can stand and say gaypower, then I most surely stand against that. That is my right. I fought for that right. As a United States Marine, I saw alot worse things to discussions upon.
What does the Marine Corps have to do with this discussion... Besides the fact that you are against the very thing that they fought so hard for... FREEDOM.
(sorry, just saw this post)
kittyroze
07-03-03, 01:01PM
Desciple you can't just say that, "that's it, I'm not talking anymore". My reasons for bringing up my points was by no means a method of attacking you, I just wanted to spark discussion. We LIKE to talk about stuff here. Even when we disagree. I think having insight into the other side can help strenghten your arguements as well as help both sides understand eachother better. I think most of the problems in the world would be improved if people were just honest and open with eachother. Honesty is the highest form of respect in my book. If you truly appreciate the view points on all sides then listen...AND respond :) There's a huge difference between preaching AT someone and having a discussion WITH someone.
I have many friends who are very religious. I keep my religious feelings off the board, but it is a personal choice. If you truly live by the bible, then that is your choice and therefore a valid form of discussion. You have to admit that there are a hell of a lot of people who claim to be pious and 'sin' more than Larry Flint does.
You are never bound to a discussion. If you feel uncomfortable then I agree that you should step away and enjoy the other posts. But we don't attack eachother here. It's simply for discussion. Remember... NCT doesn't make the laws, just discusses them. Our only goal is for enlightenment. I've learned a lot through these discussions. There's nothing wrong with that.
Diva, I get heated when I feel like I am being attacked on a subject that I am opposed to and cant think straight. Yes the Marine have fought dearly for freedom. There have been gays throughout history and even in the bible.
Freedom is what we have been fighting for. I agree. I believe that liberal thinking however has gone too far. I can with just cause sit back and justify anything and everything we think, say and do all in the name of freedom.
Kitty, I just feel like when someone is opposed to the popular opinion, they are attacked (strong word) for their beliefs. And yet we all stand back and talk about "FREEDOM". I really don't know how to discuss this particular topic in a mutual manner that it doesn't offend anyone.
I by no means am inferring that all christians are right either. We have compromised our beliefs until people don't believe anymore.
The popular belief is in self. I personally think this is retarded. I have no control of life and what it holds. I do have control of how I choose to handle things that come my way. I may not do this correctly at times and yet I keep trying.
I believe that homosexualality is a choice. There I said it. I will be cained for it. "Though he slay me, yet will I praise the Lord".
I agree that there is fun to be had here in these sometimes hair raising topics. I am a goofball at heart and like to cut up. I am also very serious about my religion and the beliefs that fill my heart.
If I offend. I apologize. I do not wish to. If you ask, I will give you my opinion. It may not always have a thread to stand on except by my own faith that I am right. It bees that way sometimes.
I just don't want to be slammed because I am standing for what I believe. There is no grey area in my book.
I think where we are hitting a wall is the difference between personal beliefs and legal rights. While you may not believe that gay lifestyles are moral, they are individual people who are deserving of rights. I look at it like my beliefs. I am Jewish, but I would never 'condemn' someone for believing in pagan rituals (I still love your xmas tree, Red :D ).
Do you think that the bible should dictate law?
I do. If we all lived by the new testament........LOL, I know that the new testament isn't in jewish beliefs. At least I don't think it is. But what do I know?
A little thought.
Pagans are dictating your rights!
Do the research to what secret societies and groups members of congress and nearly every President of this country are members of. Then do the research into what these groups are.
Alot of work..............................
I warn you that it will not be pretty of what you find.
A clue, start with the Mason's.
kittyroze
07-03-03, 02:56PM
Conspiracy theories what?
The Masonic order isn't necessarily a pagan group. They're a fraternal order that advocates brotherly love, philanthropy, and truth. They allow for openness of discussion regarding religion, politics, etc. without requiring members to be bound to a specific group. My great-grandfather was a member, as was his father, as was his father. They were devout Christians, the only one who denied any religious affiliation being my great-grandfather...I had no idea that it was a paganistic order. Or is this just more propaganda spread by the public? I think so.
Sterling
07-03-03, 03:37PM
I do. If we all lived by the new testament........LOL, I know that the new testament isn't in jewish beliefs. At least I don't think it is. But what do I know?
I guess those founding fathers were merely a bunch of confused tree-hugging liberals when they built in separation of church and state into the constitution? But what do I know?
I believe that homosexualality is a choice. There I said it.
Whether you believe it to be a choice or not is not entirely relevant. The evidence is against, but even if one did suppose that it were a choice, it does not follow that it's wrong.
Saying that "it's wrong because God says so" is not a rational argument.
If you could demonstrate adverse societal consequences, then you might have a point. But I haven't heard any argument to support that.
Incidentally, you might want to consider the somewhat circular nature of the Bible's claim to validity. Here's the usual argument advanced, see if you can spot the problem with it:
Q: How do we know the Bible is the truth?
A: It's the word of God, so it must be true.
Q: How do we know the Bible is the word of God?
A: It says so in the Bible.
Originally posted by Desciple
There is no grey area in my book.
If that book is the bible then I do question how it is possible that so many man/women are able to read the same book in so many different ways. I wonder what that fact says of the validity of it as a reference point.
Originally posted by PhoenixFire
2 penises don't make a vigina nor does 2 viginas make a penis.
Thus, this does NOT justify the definition of a "couple".
Base on my theory, I've have to conclude: NO!
If we weren't made to reproduce, we would be the same sex and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
-eom-
...mud-packers should be shot!
Interestingly, how do you deal with all those animals that are sexless, that can reproduce with a partner of the same 'sex'? I guess much of this discussion boils down to the fact whether you are not you believe that a 'natural' order was at some point created by a divinity or not. But I only have to look at the power of nature itself, the diversity, the ability to change to know that nature in itself may be considered 'divine' but sure wasn't created by a divinity.
So intertaining to see how many people believe only in themselves and have no faith or imagination. Oh, well! I don't argue scripture or religion with anyone. I can only tell you the truth as I know it.
Have a Blessed Day!
PhoenixFire
07-07-03, 10:32AM
Bottom line:
Same sex marriage is wrong.
Diva should post another poll: "Is same sex marriage right or wrong ?"
I'm not experiencing a "deliverance" flashback... I just totally disagree. :D
Sterling
07-07-03, 12:16PM
Why do you think same-sex marriage is "wrong"? Please elaborate.
PhoenixFire
07-08-03, 10:40AM
Originally posted by Sterling
Why do you think same-sex marriage is "wrong"? Please elaborate.
This morning when I shaved, I didn't look like an Amoeba.
* Ice Man again is rolling on the floor....so much said with so few words...........****hey, there's a quarter under there.
Originally posted by PhoenixFire
This morning when I shaved, I didn't look like an Amoeba.
While I edited out, "Hi, fuck you." I will say that I am NOT an amoeba. Nor can I reproduce. That being said... you care to elobarate beyond the fact that you believe reproduction validates you as a human being?
Sterling
07-08-03, 01:55PM
When I shaved this morning, I didn't look like a homophobic asshole...
kittyroze
07-08-03, 04:36PM
Ah, as usual all my thoughts encapsulated in one small sentence from Sterling.
Thanks man :)
PhoenixFire
07-16-03, 10:46AM
ahh... naming calling. I missed those 3rd grade days. Does your parents know you're in here ? pls. be sure to point your mommy to this URL: cyberpartol.com or netnanny.com
Originally posted by Diva
While I edited out, "Hi, fuck you." I will say that I am NOT an amoeba. Nor can I reproduce. That being said... you care to elobarate beyond the fact that you believe reproduction validates you as a human being?
"Fuck me"...why, yes...may I have another ? :D
What validates me as a human being:
(I'll "elaborate" it this way so amoebic people can understand it too, sure hate to be called prejudice too!)
...it appears that there is no basic difference between the human animal body and other animal bodies—and there isn’t. And yet human output is far superior to any animal including the most intelligent and similar, such as the chimpanzee. The human is the only animal that can transmit new information to succeeding generations for hundreds and thousands of years, and build on that information to try to better his condition.
Hope this help those of you who are having a identity crisis. :finger:
Man, you are nutts.............LOL
* Ice Man pats Phoenix on the back and says, "Everyone has their opinions........when confronted in harsh ways, even they try and protect their liberal way of thinking......Though your belief as is mine that the topic of this thread is WRONG, we cannot expect to win or persuade them to believe or to convert to our way of thinking. Somehow, I don't see that happening. I have faith though in GOD that my pressence here will be of some good to some one.
Go and have a blessed day in GOD and be well.
TO all opposing Phoenix Fire's opinion or harsh way of bringing it across. Remember this, he has the same rights as you to express his opinion and "two wrongs, do not make a right!" So to you as well, I wish the best blessed day that you can have and may GOD get your attention before it is too late.........
Okay, I know that I will be reamed for that last one. Bring it on!
* Ice Man picks up a chair and takes Diva's whip.
*I am ready now
Originally posted by PhoenixFire
ahh... naming calling. I missed those 3rd grade days. Does your parents know you're in here ? pls. be sure to point your mommy to this URL: cyberpartol.com or netnanny.com
Before you get too involved in trying to be a big bad guy, you might want to try spelling the URL correctly.
Originally posted by PhoenixFire
"Fuck me"...why, yes...may I have another ? :D
No, you can't. People like you shouldn't breed in the first place.
Originally posted by PhoenixFire
What validates me as a human being:
(I'll "elaborate" it this way so amoebic people can understand it too, sure hate to be called prejudice too!)
Okay, "prejudice". I think you missed the point entirely. People who can't reproduce are automatically exempt from your horribly explained blanket statements, so I'm just going to leave it at that.
Originally posted by PhoenixFire
...it appears that there is no basic difference between the human animal body and other animal bodies—and there isn’t. And yet human output is far superior to any animal including the most intelligent and similar, such as the chimpanzee. The human is the only animal that can transmit new information to succeeding generations for hundreds and thousands of years, and build on that information to try to better his condition.
Hope this help those of you who are having a identity crisis. :finger:
Please. Remove that finger from your ass and actually put it on the pulse of modern society. Comparing the human race to animals has been done many times before, and I really don't see how that point is relevant to your argument, aside from the concept of heredity.
So a gay couple can't transmit new information to an adopted child? Some of them actually have artificial insemination performed, on a donor who either donates the sperm (in the lesbian case) or the uterus (in the gay case). Whether you like it or not, these people have kids, influence their activity, and raise them like any other pair of parents. Gay people are out there. We can argue about this for weeks, but the point is, they exist, they fuck, they enjoy it, and for the most part, THEY DON'T BOTHER STRAIGHT PEOPLE. I don't see what your big hang-up is with it. Really. It's asinine.
Here's where I put my foot down. Desciple... (grabs whip and chair) you stated that PF has a right to his opinion. Then you state that those opposing are wrong. First of all, you are only protecting his opinion because it is yours, which is sad. I have already said that everyone has a right to their opinion. But when you join a debate it is to discuss different opinions. My biggest beef with you two is that you don't respect people who are different.
Let me put this a different way. I am Jewish. By your religion I am going to Hell. You believe this by your book. I believe differently. On this forum it is called 'agree to disagree'. I really hate to amend the rules to put in "NO PREACHING". But I do NOT want someone to feel threatened or insulted because they believe differently. You can hold your book over your head and shout til you turn blue... but nothing will be proven til you are dead and know who's right. Until then, I hope that you would respect that EVERYONE has a right to their opinion and not be condescending.
PF: Not in a million years. Humans don't better their condition... They destroy what they fear. They fear anything that is different. By your fractioned statement I am assuming you are 'bringing home' the point that we're superior by how we reproduce. So... If it is the ability to reproduce and not the decision, then it still doesn't explain why you think gays are less. They have the ability to reproduce. Being gay doesn't change your physical self. Or are you so afraid of them that you think they are physically different? I think you are the one with the identity crisis.
Sterling
07-16-03, 12:04PM
Here's the thing. People have a right to their opinion, but that can't be used as a 'get out of jail free' card when you get into a debate. I mean, that's the nature of debate - your opinion is put to the test by others with differing opinions. If you start losing, you can't just say 'well I'm entitled to my opinion' and expect that to be morally equivalent to some kind of draw.
If I were to say something outrageous, for example that gays should be rounded up and gassed, I imagine that quite a few people here would want to challenge that opinion. If, after getting beaten down by all and sundry, I turn around and say "well, I'm entitled to my opinion and you should respect that", it wouldn't really make me any less of a loser in the argument.
And that's exactly the situation here. Desciple and PF are arguing for the kind of homophobic BS that I thought civilised people had done away with years ago. After getting soundly challenged by people on this thread, it's a bit weak to just say "well, I'm entitled to my opinion". All that says to me is that they don't really have any valid arguments to support it.
kittyroze
07-16-03, 12:11PM
I will happily state more than one reason to support my opinion...I'll give you facts and references up to wazoo if you'd like.
So please return the favor and use something more than "god says so". Maybe, why did god say so. What is morally wrong about it? I understand feeling murder is morally wrong. But for two people to love it eachother and be able to express that? I'm still trying to figure out what's so bad about that.
And as a note, there's still a big difference between expressing your opinion in an intelligent, respectful way and doing what PF if pulling. What do you, PF, think of the animal bodies that are capable of CHANGING SEXES during their lifetime. Take little Nemo, the clown fish for example. In a school of clown fish, when the main breeding female is killed the main male BECOMES a female and the next strongest male moves up on the chain. There's a lot of same sex sex in the animal kingdom. You don't see them making a big stink about it.
As the "intellectually superior" species...I expect that we would be capable of rising above pretty much any physical shit. Be it skin color, gender or cancer. I just think it takes time. I also think it's going to take a long time because people out there don't know how to discuss...as we've seen highlighted in this thread.
Diva, let me know if this is too far...but...since it's been touched upon already...
I am NOT religious. At all. I have FAITH that there is no god. I could go off on this for hours, and if you think I lack moral fiber because of it, it's your mistake. I spend way more time being a good person (volunteering for good causes, giving to those in need, blah blah blah) than any of the christians I currently know. But that has nothing to do with my reasoning for why homosexual couples should have rights. I like to believe in things I can pretty much directly see and experience...like human emotions...love even. Two people, so much in love, is such a beautiful pure thing. I don't see any reason why the government should put limitations on two consenting adults like that.
In recent years we've all been fighting to ensure that people are not judged on race or gender. Well, in keeping with not judging on gender...a couple is a couple. Two people. In love. Marriage and what have you should be equally available. The law should protect people in those relationships. In any romantic relationship. There's a surprsing amount of domestic violence among same sex couples...I think about the same as hetero couples...but the same sex couples get no protection. You get beaten up brutally by your partner in a same sex couple and it's treated just like you were in a bar fight. If a same sex couple seperates, one can fuck the other over in terms of money and property and there is jack shit the other can do legally. I think that is just plain wrong. People should have the right to fall in love with whom they please and to be protected just like anyone else who falls in love.
NO NO NO NO NO.......that's not what I meant.........I meant attacking back was wrong.........You have the right to your opinion as well...........
* Ice Man runs from Diva.........
Again, I don't argue Religion......I do speak my point of view......as do all of you......if you wish I will not attend discussions in this forum.
I was misunderstood in what I was saying as you jumped to defend yourself without fully understanding what I said....When you should have asked "what exactly did you mean" instead of assuming that I was bashing everyone who didn't believe as I do. One thing you must know to understand me. I do not judge people, period. If I believe something to be wrong, I will say so. That's my right and I will use it as you all have the same rights. However, this is your forum and I respect that. Have a great day and God bless you all..........The desciple is leaving the building.
Originally posted by Desciple
*Desciple pats Phoenix on the back and says, "Everyone has their opinions........when confronted in harsh ways, even they try and protect their liberal way of thinking......Though your belief as is mine that the topic of this thread is WRONG, we cannot expect to win or persuade them to believe or to convert to our way of thinking. Somehow, I don't see that happening. I have faith though in GOD that my pressence here will be of some good to some one.
Desciple, you have to do what you feel comfortable with. I wish you the best. You are always welcome back.
Just remember, you did say, 'Bring it on'. If you enter a debate, you have to expect people to argue their views. I respect people for having different views. I never expected to 'convert' anyone. A debate hopefully finds some middle ground and everyone learns from it. That's all. But labelling people liberals and saying the topic is wrong is judging someone in my opinion. Believing something different and saying 'you are wrong' is two different things.
Originally posted by Desciple
So to you as well, I wish the best blessed day that you can have and may GOD get your attention before it is too late.........
This is what I am talking about. You make a strong statement such as this, then you should be prepared to argue that point.
The one thing that you should know is that your beliefs are not in question here. You live your life religiously. That is something that I admire. But when you make statements involving another persons' belief than I consider it preaching and I don't want that.
TO EVERYONE:
NCT does not make or break laws. We're just a bunch of normal people expressing our opinions and having a good time. At times it can be heated, but I don't want anyone to get their feelings hurt. It's all in fun and at the end of the day I'd like us all to be able to shake cyber hands and joke around.
Now, on with the debate....
PhoenixFire
07-17-03, 04:13PM
... I don't recall stating I have walked on water so if my fingers mistyped a key, JakeD... have a purple cow for me, eh?
..and please, you people.... take a freakin' break! My opinions are my own, your opinions are yours. I don't know what the fuck you people are huffin' -n- puffin' about, am I not allowed to write a few lines of personal views ? If I have mentioned your name in any of my post with such personal attacks like you people have towards me... I want you to "quote" me. If not, get off my tan-ass with your crying river.
*PF feels he just won NCT ass-kicking award ?
* Diva thinks PheonixFire needs to omit the 'kicking' part. :p
The one thing that I request is the discussions be civilized. Saying that someone should be shot is not being civilized. Wishing harm on someone that you don't approve of is not civilized. Perhaps if you stopped 'trying' to be witty and just had a half-way intelligent conversation you would get a better response. If you don't approve of the whole thread, then there are plenty of other threads to post on where you may be able to have a discussion.
* JakeD gives birth to a purple cow and hands it to PhoenixFire.
I was wondering what the morning sickness was all about.
I only corrected you because you were being a smart-ass to Sterling, who I believe was spot-on in his one sentence assessment of your personality. Your statement "eom mud-packers should be shot" is your opinion. That's fine. But when you express your opinion in such a simple-minded fashion, you should prepare yourself for any sort of potential backlash. If you had said something to the effect of "Sure, fucking another guy in his pooper might be fun for them, but it's not for me, and I really don't like the idea of sticking my wang in another man, or vice-versa." Then, we more than likely would have responded with, "Well, I understand, as I'm not willing to bend over for another guy, but far be it from me to dictate what people can and can't do." And, essentially, everything would have been just fucking peachy.
Edit: As long as you realize that no matter how many shots you pop off at Bruce, Andre and Serendipity, homosexuality's not going to stop. It's been around ever since old Greek men were shagging little boys in the bottom during the Olympics. Hell, who knows if Ug didn't get turned on by Urgh as he was busy field-dressing a brontosaurus?
Sterling
07-17-03, 08:07PM
Hell, who knows if Ug didn't get turned on by Urgh as he was busy field-dressing a brontosaurus?
I'm guessing that didn't happen, what with the dinosaurs becoming extinct some 60 million years before homo sapiens evolved.
But the thrust of your point is still valid.
To PF: don't try to run before you can walk. I strongly recommend just making your point in plain English, with well-formed sentences, before trying to be witty or cool along with it. Your recent posts are barely coherent drivel.
Originally posted by Sterling
I'm guessing that didn't happen, what with the dinosaurs becoming extinct some 60 million years before homo sapiens evolved.
But the thrust of your point is still valid.
THANK YOU. :D
kittyroze
07-18-03, 12:55AM
Um. Hee hee hee. He said "thrust". Hee hee hee.
* kittyroze laughs a la Butthead
This is exactly why I don't discuss politics or religion. Well, that, and I'm not well informed enough on either, and don't wanna sound like an idiot.
IMHO, you cannot choose your sexuality any more than you can choose how tall you are, what color your eyes are, (contacts don't count, I'm talking natural) or anything else. Love is love. It's magical, frightening, bold, happy, sad, mystical, boring, and a whole lot of other things all wrapped up into two beings that love each other and create a couple. It doesn't/shouldn't matter what gender the two people are.
PhoenixFire
07-18-03, 09:48AM
Originally posted by Sterling
To PF: don't try to run before you can walk. I strongly recommend just making your point in plain English, with well-formed sentences, before trying to be witty or cool along with it. Your recent posts are barely coherent drivel.
..as Diva would say: "While I edited out, "Hi, fuck you." I don't have time to write a freakin' novel like you. I make short blunt sentences so I don't waste my time getting to the point.
..dont' you have to crawl first before you can walk. *talk about coherent drivel ??
Sterling, have a great mutherbuckin' TGIF ! ...and to everyone here at NCT as well! :D
hey, JakeD... you and Barney got together didn't you?
With this, I leave you guys with two jokes:
Joke 1:
Q: What do you call a gay dinosaur?
##############
##############
A: Megasorass.
Joke 2:
Q: What do you call a lesbian dinosaur?
##############
##############
A: A Lickalottapuss
Originally posted by PhoenixFire
..as Diva would say: "While I edited out, "Hi, fuck you." I don't have time to write a freakin' novel like you. I make short blunt sentences so I don't waste my time getting to the point.
..dont' you have to crawl first before you can walk. *talk about coherent drivel ??
Short, blunt sentences would work....IF YOU ACTUALLY MADE A POINT.
* JakeD goes insane and finds a tall building to swan-dive off of.
kittyroze
07-18-03, 12:16PM
* kittyroze watches JakeD as he jumps off the street curb
I guess that's what going insane will do to you...fucks with your perception, man.
Sweet Insanity
11-09-03, 12:00PM
Wow! What a roller coaster ride this thread has been. I'm glad that I happened upon it to add my two cents. First, I should qualify my comments by letting you know that I am bisexual. I wanted to get that out there in case someone tries to use that against me at some point to prove bias. I think in this discussion we all come with our biases, that's not a bad thing, it's just something to be conscious of. One can still put forward a sound argument no matter what their biases are.
I think that same sex couples should be afforded the same rights as heterosexual couples. When we're talking about the institution of marriage one has to question the modern reasons for entering this institution. I am not going to pretend that I know alot on this subject but from what I have seen many people now a days see marriage as a legal contract, mostly for the protection of rights. So, if that is the case why should one's sexual orientation restrict them from entering a legal contract. This would also include having a beneficiary or a dependent who is eligible for medical benefits under your medical coverage or any other rights afforded married heterosexual couples.
Legal contract aside, if people are getting married because they are in love then who are we to argue? Who is the government to condemn such love? If people must throw in the sexual element connected to love then it would be easy for me to just say "the government should say out of the bedrooms of citizens". But that would then beg the argument that sometimes what goes on in a bedroom needs a legal response. One case in point is pedophelia. So, instead of the above I would say that the government needs to stay out of the bedrooms of citizens when two consenting adults are involved and no harm is being done that could be defined as injurious to health and welfare. However, such definitions in and of themselves can also be problematic depending on how the definition is crafted and by whom. What one person may find injurious another would not. I hope that it would go through the "reasonable person" test, although I sometimes worry about using such tests when I am often dismayed by the reasoning of others on such topics. But I digress :)
Of course there are still laws out there that do not coincide with such sentiment to even pave the way for legalizing same sex marriages. If sodomy is against the law in a given state it would be pretty hard to justify legalization of same sex marriage (at least as far as men are concerned) since the sexual element to that marriage would indeed include sodomy. Even these laws are ambiguous. I have read that at one point in time the word "sodomy" was used to describe both anal and oral sex. A point I believe Diva alluded to in an earlier post. Now "sodomy" is often only used to refer to anal sex.
Well, I could talk for hours on this subject so I think I'll end this post here to give others a chance to respond.
whitecrow
11-09-03, 03:44PM
Holysmokes it's hot in herre.
No, please don't take off all your clothes.
BOOZER! Put your damn clothes back on, man.
People.
Respect everyone's opinion. I can see where everyone is getting their opinions from and I bow to the fact that they have coniviciton to stand by them, especially those (Desciple, PF) who take the "less-popular" point on view.
(Please note, I only said "less-popular" because of media presentation)
I want equal rights for every couple, regardless. I think it's only FAIR and DEMOCRATIC which, from my limited knowledge is WAHT THIS %^$&^%# COUNTRY WAS BUILT ON!!!
But your views are your views and I love you for it.
Welcome to NCT.
Redallnite
11-12-03, 07:01PM
Just because time changes, does that make being "Gay" okay? Think about this, what if we all thought being gay was the norm. How would we survive? Don't get into the test tube or insemination thing...... that is just too easy......
* Redallnite is waiting for the sky to fall......:rolleyes:
whitecrow
11-12-03, 07:25PM
Being "gay" as you put it, should never been thought of as "wrong".
Times do change, yes - and it's high time we changed with it. And if homosexuality were the norm, then great, all us hetros, or "breeders" could have a march down george street once a year, get heckled and demonstrated against, be refeused many basic services and be ignored by the very system set up to help us.
* Diva puts Red on her knee
Let me explain this a different way... I dont want someone telling me who I can and cannot love. Why dont you exchange the word 'GAY' for 'BLACK' or 'JEWISH'. Do you think that the government should legally condemn someone based on who they love?
Sweet Insanity
11-12-03, 07:54PM
I would hope that as times change being gay is seen as okay. Of course, thinking that being gay is okay does not make it the norm. Let us not confuse "norm" (statiscally average) with "normal" (standard for most people).
Since being gay is not a choice the percentage of gay people in the world is not likely to increase all that much. However, the known percentages may increase as more people come out as society becomes more accepting of gay people.
Yes, there are people out there who like to explore their sexuality by having sexual experiences with same-sex partners, but that does not make them gay. Perhaps sexual experimentation with same-sex partners will one day become the norm but that's not likely to happen in my life time.
Redallnite
11-12-03, 08:07PM
Originally posted by Diva
* Diva puts Red on her knee
Let me explain this a different way... I dont want someone telling me who I can and cannot love. Why dont you exchange the word 'GAY' for 'BLACK' or 'JEWISH'. Do you think that the government should legally condemn someone based on who they love?
Dang, I do speak a language no one knows.... :rolleyes: Oh well, I'll re-word it when I can write it right.............
* Redallnite wants the Diva to play the bouncey horsey game..........
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