Tell Me About Your Country

[Diva]

If you've read my rant today, you can come out now... ;)

Tell me about your country. Americans allowed. I want to hear about what you like, dislike. Your polical and judicial system [pros and cons]. I want to know and open discussion about it. Ask questions. Let me ask questions. We can only learn from each other if we share our differences... and simularities....

[LucifersChild]

this should be interesting eh aussie? a view of the country from the eyes of a southerner. im split on my views actually. there are times when im proud to be an american, and times when i am not. things are fairly laid back in the south. not very much to worry about. so when something like 9-11 happens it even effects us down here. our government in this country really pisses me off. a fair trial? YEAH RIGHT you arent going to get a fair trial for anything. if you dont have the money for your own attorney you can forget it. because if you have to have a public defender, youre shit out of luck my friend. you arent going to get defense for shit. i consider my patriotic by no means. im happy to live where i live, and to have freedom. for that im eternally grateful. but as for government, things of that nature ill never be happy. never have been. we still have the electric chair here in alabama. which i dont think is enough, but its better than fucking lethal injection. alabama behind the times? maybe, but most of the people look at the country as "if its not happening in my town, i could give 2 shits less" dont get me wrong, there are the older folks who care, but for the majority, noone around here cares about anything. my dad gives me the speech daily..."if i would have baptized you when you were young, you wouldnt turn out the way you are" which is pure bullshit. thats another thing about the south.. ORGANIZED RELIGION, mostly baptists which in my opinion are the worst. 3 things to remember, college football, religion, and patriotism. thats what the south is made up of in my opinion. that felt good to get off my chest!!!! :p

[Mick]

Nice thought Aussie. In the late '80's I looked for work in Australia as a , in your words, "diesel fitter". I had to submit a resume and they sent me a list of professions they were looking for. Obviously, I did not make the move. Quality country, quality people! The spawn of convicts have created a nice spot in this world. I see your country wants to buy A-10 aircraft from us, and the sale seems to be a done deal. You guys rock! Nice flag waving online by the way! Later Mate, Mick

[Villager]

I live in the greatest country in the world.

Now, while that's probably not true, I do love my country. We have :-

* A free healthcare system
* A fully developed, if somewhat outdated, infrastructure
* Record low unemployment
* Very few poisonous animals/insects
* A culturally diverse and largely integrated society
* Comparitively low crime, safe streets
* Genuine democracy


Unfortunately, we also have :-

* Overpopulated towns and cities
* Outdated and underfunded public services
* A poor standard of basic education
* Racism, albeit less and more restricted now
* Class and social divisions (but to a lesser extent than even a few years ago.. things are improving)
* Terrible television
* Really really really shitty weather


To Quote Louis De Beniéres, the one thing you can guarantee about the British is that they will treat you despicably, and then make up for it a hundred fold. We are, and have historically always been, a greedy nation. We once held a mighty empire equal to that of any, and indeed the consequences of that remain today. We have massive history and countries such as India and Africa, and to that end Britain itself has benefitted from the influences of the different cultures it encroached upon.
Britain nowadays is a funny thing; at one end we move forward more quicly than ever before, and things seem sweet. At the other, we are on an economical par with Italy and have more problems than could be counted.

But it's still a great country to live in.

[Amaurote]

I'd tend to agree with Villager on the whole, although I'd probably cavil a little about his use of the term "democracy", since the parliamentary system in question is essentially a Whig-dominated oligarchy with threads of specious democratic sentiment running through it like a polluted stick of Blackpool rock; this has in turn monumentally corroded the Australian system of Government ("Good Morning Mr Gough Whitlam, will that be a constitutional crisis with or without flapjacks?"; "Pass the Finance Bill, Alice" etc. etc.) and centralized power increasingly in the hands of the Prime Minister, who has now attained the awesome, corrupt power of a nineteenth century nabob or the Persian Grand Mufti. Stick with your presidents and delimited executives, my friends.

This aside, however, I'd like to agree with LucifersChild, and in doing so to make an incoherent defence of incivism which will no doubt end with me getting the shite kicked out of my unworthy, miserable body, and deservedly so. Nevertheless, consider:

The nation state is a spurious concept; the idea of a country with an homogenous culture, carefully circumscribed geopolitical borders, and a national anthem with amusing, nay hilarious native costumes is a sham devised by eighteenth century radicals to take the minds of the proletariat off their poverty, hunger and miserable, enervating squalor. Centralized power through patriotism is a product of the late-feudal, early industrial bourgeoisie, which appeals to the people over the local notables and emerges with a Royal Flush, country-winning hand. A bureaucracy emerges owing its primary loyalty to King and Country rather than the banner of his feudal overlord, (who has invariably gone AWOL killing innocent Irishman in Drogheda anyway).

So far, so facetious. Nonetheless, patriotism largely emerged from the French Revolution negatively as a way of defining citizens and un-citizens: the treasonable emigres, the loyal sans-culottes; the loyal Jacobins, the traitorous federalist Gironde. The term "patriotism" is merely the obverse of the term "traitor": a word of political obloquy designed to humiliate and degrade a political opponent, while appealing to a quasi-mythical history. I don't object to this; there are times when particular countries embody timeless ideals (truth, justice, opportunity, freedom) which should be defended. But it's the ideals you defend - not the country: the working classes of one country will undoubtedly have more in common with the working classes of another country than they do with their own middle class governors, bosses and bureaucracy; patriotism is just a fig leaf for the feckless hucksters and card-sharps that invariably administer our benighted countries.

Lucy: I never realized you were from Alabama. Have you ever seen this man before? His name is Arthur Bremer, and he shot George Wallace in your State about 30 years ago. I'd be interested to find out what you know about his current situation in gaol.

[Diva]

Amaurote, I agree with what you say to a point. When I speak of my country, I don't mean the land mass that I live on, rather everything that it holds.

While your vast knowledge of history and civilization undoubtedly gives you an edge in both the philosophical and literal arenas, it seems to have stripped you of the emotional, discarnate understanding of its value.

Idealism is what carries us and despair is what crushes us. In the middle is where I find Patriotism. When and where it imerged is inconsequential to me. The fact remains that when my country was attcked in such a way that my generation had never seen, Patriotism is what held us together. When I welcome someone into my home, I am not just speaking of the walls and the furnature, but of the place that shelters me and holds all things dear. From memories to pets, my home is a way of summerizing all that is dear to me.

the working classes of one country will undoubtedly have more in common with the working classes of another country than they do with their own middle class governors, bosses and bureaucracy This is the point in which this thread was created. The average person while living in different states, countries, continents and with different social, political and religious backgounds have unique views... what is important to us is basically the same.

More importantly, I want to show that while a person may not agree with another country's political, social or religious views... the citizens who live there shouldn't bear the wrath of it's governmental flaw.

[Amaurote]

Originally posted by Diva
Amaurote, I agree with what you say to a point. When I speak of my country, I don't mean the land mass that I live on, rather everything that it holds.

Idealism is what carries us and despair is what crushes us. In the middle is where I find Patriotism. When and where it imerged is inconsequential to me. The fact remains that when my country was attcked in such a way that my generation had never seen, Patriotism is what held us together. When I welcome someone into my home, I am not just speaking of the walls and the furnature, but of the place that shelters me and holds all things dear. From memories to pets, my home is a way of summerizing all that is dear to me.



Agreed, Diva, and powerfully argued.

We're probably disagreeing semantically and theoretically here. I've said that I'm an antipatriot and incivist; that doesn't mean that I don't appreciate the beauty of my country's history, or that I'm ashamed of its colonial-imperial past; on the contrary, I find much to admire in its political, literary and aesthetic culture. I'm more than ready to enlist if my country is threatened by a bellicose rival State.

What I do object to is the use of patriotism to push emotional buttons in the prosecution of foreign adventures and enterprises which have nothing to do with the defence of the realm, and everything to do with the expansion of naked power: the way khaki elections are held in the aftermath of the patriotic alarum: think Howard's Liberal Party, for example; think the Boer War; think Barry Goldwater. Richard Nixon was one of the greatest exploiters of patriotic fervour the world has seen: he exploited Greek patriotism to extend Turkish Cypriot control; he exploited American patriotism by subverting a Vietnamese Peace Conference while Lyndon Johnson was still in power. To misquote Goering, when I hear the word "patriotism", that's when I reach for my revolver. Fortunately for me, I don't have a revolver. I have beer instead...

US patriotism is arguably different in any case. The USA was forged in a revolutionary war, and its national identity is identical with rough-hewn freedom and the fierce defence of natural liberty. Australia is synonymous with hard work and the redemption of the early settlers. To this extent, you have a psychological justification in being patriotic, and perhaps you gain from it somehow, grow more complete. My country was forged in a petrie dish over 2000 years, and its legacy is confused. If I want to be patriotic I sing "God Save the Queen". Great. One problem: I'm a republican. If I join the armed forces I'll no doubt be deployed in Ulster, policing an artificially created province against terrorists who have every justification for existing, and whose position I sympathize with. In this country it is High Treason to rape a royal princess. This may seem only fair to some, but High Treason is a capital offence in the UK; rape for a commoner is not. Royalty and patriotism are hideously synonymous, and I despise the entire royal Gormenghast-esque panoply with a passion.

I believe in spiritual growth; in self-sacrifice; in altruism; in justice; and in compassion. These are enough for me. My political heroes and my cultural heritage come from other countries as well as this one, the one I reside in by accident of Fate.

In essence: I have no personal need for patriotism; but I have no wish to denigrate patriotic feeling in other people. I merely seek the liberty to worship the gods and ideals of my own choosing, no more, no less.

[Diva]

The 'Patriotism' that I hold dear to my heart the inner soul of my country... and the 'Patriotism' that you seek asylum from its false G-ds and political exploitation are cut from the same cloth, yet they live and breed on opposite ends of the spectrum.

Yes, there have been many political and military molestations of the citizens. And I concede that there always will be. But the reason patriotism is such a lethal and loyal weapon is that whe passion is pure. To crudely paraphrase a scene from Braveheart: If there was a paid soldier and a farmer going to battle, I'd but my odds on the farmer. The soldier is paid leave home and go to battle... but the farmer is battling to protect his home. [See. I told you]

That being said, I only wish for an understanding of our country's patriotism, and not to cram it down someone else's throat. You seem to understand that and I appreciate your enlightened view points. I hope others will follow suit and differentiate between polital propaganda and the gratitude of an individual for the opportunities
his country has given him.

[James]

My country? 1 word: COLD