View Full Version : Bush ASS KICKER DELUXE
*Checks those opinion polls that are still in the high favorable ratings*
OK,,,, I know that this site has some liberal bed wetters on it. I just wanted to take a sounding of their thoughts on this very popular president and his strategeries for our great nation.
Let it all out.
You should read more! He's slipping in the polls as we speak. His great energy summits [I.E. sleeping with Enron] and Alaskan failure are taking it's toll. His redneck stomping attitude is alienating world leaders. I've never seen such a bad case of 'Foot-in-Mouth' disease in my life. He's using a war that could unite us and instead saying 'you're either with us or against us' quips only weakens our cause.
He has been unable to fulfill most of his campaign promises and is two years into the job. Most businesses would have canned his arse after 6 months for failure to produce. His knew campaign on welfare reaks of failure. '
Bush also pushed a hotly contested initiative to promote stable families through a $300 million plan to counsel couples on welfare "on building a healthy respect for marriage." Critics charge that he is using welfare to promote a conservative social agenda. Three hundred million dollars to have couples sit down and say, "Get married"??? That's his plan? I want my money back!
PSSST! Hi! *Gives Usantics big hug
Okay, Okay,,,,,,,,,,next?
Can - us - foreigners vent their dislikes too? :)
First of all, you should have never accepted a President on a 'chad' race. Secondly, Bush and Co are only in power because they are supported, directed and manipulated by a small group of 'power' people who need to control the Washington machinery in order to protect their interest. Main ballgame players here are I would say the oil and weapons industury. Thirdly, Bush has never shown and probably never will a sign of vision in his political efforts. All his decisions are based on short term gains (keeping da folks happy) or by whisper of the ear. And lastly, he is alienating US politics at a very rapid peace from the rest of the world. Simply because his administration does not have the skills nor the will be and get involved in an ever-changing international community.
GLADIATOR
05-16-02, 06:53AM
Originally posted by SysLord
First of all, you should have never accepted a President on a 'chad' race. Secondly, Bush and Co are only in power because they are supported, directed and manipulated by a small group of 'power' people who need to control the Washington machinery in order to protect their interest. Main ballgame players here are I would say the oil and weapons industury. Thirdly, Bush has never shown and probably never will a sign of vision in his political efforts. All his decisions are based on short term gains (keeping da folks happy) or by whisper of the ear. And lastly, he is alienating US politics at a very rapid peace from the rest of the world. Simply because his administration does not have the skills nor the will be and get involved in an ever-changing international community.
Well the UK likes him. Your famous Labour party leader Tony Blair is practically a servant of Bush.
On the other hand that despicable ladt M Thatcher thought Bush to be a Brown Nose Red Neck. Good old Thatcher a real judge of character
Since when do you determine my political favorites Gladiator? Take a look at one of my postings:
http://nochicktrix.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1127
In this case Thatcher was 100% correct.
GLADIATOR
05-16-02, 07:10AM
Originally posted by SysLord
Since when do you determine my political favorites Gladiator? Take a look at one of my postings:
http://nochicktrix.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1127
In this case Thatcher was 100% correct.
Ha Ha. It did get your attention tho!!
Of course it does. I tend to address replies that are directed to me! :)
Bush knew of the terrorists in July. He did nothing. He was warned (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&ncid=716&e=1&u=/ap/20020516/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_hijackings_19) that a large number of Arabs seeking pilot, security and airport operations training at at least one U.S. flight school and which urged a check of all flight schoolsto identify more possible Middle Eastern students. He did nothing. Could this have stopped 9-11? No, probably not all. But I do believe they could have saved lives, and if they found the connection with the terrorists and Bin Lan [which they did] they could have deported their murdering asses and delayed or stopped some of it. Who knows... If he went in full force, he MAY have deported them all together thus ending their plan for that day. He did not.
:finger:
GLADIATOR
05-16-02, 09:37AM
Originally posted by Diva
Bush knew of the terrorists in July. He did nothing. He was warned (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&ncid=716&e=1&u=/ap/20020516/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_hijackings_19) that a large number of Arabs seeking pilot, security and airport operations training at at least one U.S. flight school and which urged a check of all flight schoolsto identify more possible Middle Eastern students. He did nothing. Could this have stopped 9-11? No, probably not all. But I do believe they could have saved lives, and if they found the connection with the terrorists and Bin Lan [which they did] they could have deported their murdering asses and delayed or stopped some of it. Who knows... If he went in full force, he MAY have deported them all together thus ending their plan for that day. He did not.
:finger:
Come on Diva, no one could blame him for the events. Of course he was getting intelligence briefings but they didn't even point to the suicide attacks, but plane hijacking.
not even MOSSAD had an incling to this. This was a brilliant and well executed plan, and surely as a totallity the Western world can be blamed but not Bush the individual.
Sterling
05-16-02, 11:25AM
Right. This points up a common fallacy in analysing intellgence failures. The problem is typically not lack of information, but the inability to sift through that information effectively.
I can guarantee that when the CIA, FBI, NSA and the rest looked through their files after 9/11, all the information was there that, with hindsight could theoretically have enabled them to piece together and prevent the attacks. Does this mean they are incompetent? No. What it means is that they prioritised information, and diverted the resources they had to analysing the tiny fraction of promising leads they had out of the torrent of information that flows into them every day. In this case, they were unlucky.
So, I don't think we should get on Bush's case because he may have had information available to him which, with 20/20 hindsight, was related to the 9/11 attacks.
We should, on the other hand, get on Bush's case for raping the environment, diplomatic blunders, blowing the budget surplus on reckless tax cuts, his relationship with Enron, and general idiocy.
CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/05/16/bush.sept.11/index.html) gives more information on this subject.
Do I blame him alone? No. But why even have briefings if information is not even acted upon. They failed to put the pieces together and he is the head honcho. When his team fails, he fails. These were not bits and pieces:
Another official said there was a "common theme at that time that bin Laden was up to something" and that intelligence reports in the weeks and even months before September 11 warned of the prospect of new attacks from al Qaeda.
Another U.S. official said the "chatter" about bin Laden dated back to the Clinton administration but "reached a pitch" in spring 2001 and began to receive more attention in intelligence circles and at the highest levels of government. It also states that even when the Clinton Administration was in place, they knew something was being planned. This was not out of the blue, guys. They put out warnings all the time when Americans are abroad. Why didn't they say a peep when they knew. Even to local authorities.
In May 2001, for example, Bush asked Vice President Dick Cheney to lead an administration task force to assess the country's counterterrorism effort.
At that time, Cheney told CNN: "Well, the concern here is that one of our biggest threats as a nation is no longer, sort of, the conventional military attack against the United States but rather that it might come from other quarters.
"It could be domestic terrorism, but it may also be a terrorist organization overseas or even another state using weapons of mass destruction against the U.S., a hand-carried nuclear weapon or biological or chemical agents," Cheney said. "The threat to the continental United States and our infrastructure is changing and evolving. And we need to look at this whole area, oftentimes referred to as homeland defense."Another dot that wasn't connected. Task forces are most companies idea of 'looking' busy. Their findings are rarely implemented. Aparently the government feels the same way. Cheney made a direct warning about terrorism on the homefront and nothing was actively done. Yes, 20/20 hind site does play a role in this. But not because of information meaning and what to take seriously, but that there is a reason these memos and task forces are implemented. If the information at hand is ignored then why have them?
U.S. Sen. Richard Shelby, the top Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee, also pointed to the arrest last summer of Zacarias Moussaoui, who had aroused suspicions at a Minnesota flight school. He was arrested on an immigration charge but has since been charged with conspiracy in the September 11 attacks. There are many people asking for answers, both Republican and Democrat. They also want to know why it took 8 months to reveal this information. Who knows what has been 'lost'.
Sterling, you really want to open up that can of worms? ;)
GLADIATOR
05-16-02, 02:13PM
Originally posted by Sterling
Right. This points up a common fallacy in analysing intellgence failures. The problem is typically not lack of information, but the inability to sift through that information effectively.
I can guarantee that when the CIA, FBI, NSA and the rest looked through their files after 9/11, all the information was there that, with hindsight could theoretically have enabled them to piece together and prevent the attacks. Does this mean they are incompetent? No. What it means is that they prioritised information, and diverted the resources they had to analysing the tiny fraction of promising leads they had out of the torrent of information that flows into them every day. In this case, they were unlucky.
So, I don't think we should get on Bush's case because he may have had information available to him which, with 20/20 hindsight, was related to the 9/11 attacks.
We should, on the other hand, get on Bush's case for raping the environment, diplomatic blunders, blowing the budget surplus on reckless tax cuts, his relationship with Enron, and general idiocy.
That is 100% correct. The perceived greatest intelligence service in the world (MOSSAD) missed the signs of the Yom Kippur war. Afterwards all the information was infront of them, but they could not take it all in.
That's the first time in Israels history that 'heads rolled.' Bush in the end was just a victim, and not the perpetrator.
Good post Sterling. Thanks
I never said that Bush was a perpetrator. He his a victim as the world has become to these monsters. Terrorism is everywhere and no one knows when and how it is going to happen.
BUT! They were getting information, direct information. both Republicans and Democrats are stating this. I don't know how much you view the American politics, Gladiator, but these two political parties disagree as a principle. For both sides to come together and agree that something was 'missed' is serious. The fact that the ones privy to more information than you and I are shouting the most says something to me. No one has blamed anyone. But we want answers. And when the people find out that information was not acted uponwe want to know why and what is being done to insure that this slip-up doesn't happen again. It was not out of the blue, Gladiator. The President and those in his cabinet knew and were searching for information. But they were treating it as searching just in case. They should have been acting upon the information that was at hand. Solid information, not whispers. They should have investigated the flight school's enrollees. All they had to do was look them up, for cripes sake! They arrested one who was an Al-Quada working with Bin Laden. That wasn't even their first clue. The government dropped the ball. As the President who tore Gore apart for his military background and boast of his own... only to be caught - once again - in a lie about his own military career [what career]. He ditched it and got away with it. But he boasted about it. And now in a time of war he is called upon to show why they ask about military background. He should have been keen to these points and ordered, as he can do, a full investigation. He did not. He is a victim. But what happened could have been at the very best prevented. Ownership. Responsibility. That is all I expect. You fuck up, admit it.
GLADIATOR
05-17-02, 07:22AM
Oh, I fuck up all the time, and I am very fast to admit it, but in this case I really 'guess' the administration has done nothing wrong.
Think about this Diva, even after the 9/11, it took the CIA/FBI around 1 month to start putting all the jigsaw to-gether. Sure they had bit's of the puzzle, but not enough to have stopped it.
Lets presume, they had put out a warning on terrorist hijacks, sur a few people would have stopped flying (not many tho) but tell me how many people would have stayed at home and therefore not been killed by the planes? I reckon Zero.
We are fighting and argueing pedantic points among ourselves, rather than concentrating on taking out the perpretrators of these crimes. It would not even suprise me if Bin Ladens people are not 'stoking this fire' they are all laughing at you fighting among yourselves.
Of course USA can and has to learn from the tragic events. Firstly the CIA and FBI must work as a team. But let me conclude with one bit of information for you.
The CIA employs 20,000 staff, can you imagine disseminating data from 20,000 people, and add that to the FBI. Its nie impossible. In hindsight everything is easy.
Go pick on the enemy, support your President and Country, and in 5 yrs, you still do not like him 'Vote with your feet' But never let the real enemy 'Divide and Conquer you'
Go write to your President, tell him, he has 100% your support, but be as open as possible. Give him a hug, I bet he needs it.
They knew Bin Laden was planning something. Fact:
They arrested Zacarias Moussaoui, who wanted to learn how to fly, but not land, a 747 airliner.
Fact: Bush's August 6 presidential briefing suggested that al Qaeda operatives might carry out a "hijacking in the traditional sense," most likely to demand the release of convicted terrorists held in U.S. prisons. Sen. Richard Shelby, the top Republican on the Intelligence Committee, said the White House should have revealed the warning earlier.
Fact: On August 16, the FAA issues a message on "disguised weapons," said Rice. "They were concerned about some reports that the terrorists had made breakthroughs in cell phones, key chains and pens as weapons," she said.
Would people stop flying? No. I know I am thinking the best case scenerio when I say that looking into the flight schools, finding the connection, arresting/deporting/'interviewing' these terrorists and thus throwing off or stopping that one attack. But at least the American public should have been warned. We are never warned when it is on US soil. The government wants to keep us comfortable. But I think that this was different. They knew something BIG was up. WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN NOTIFIED.
GLADIATOR
05-17-02, 08:17AM
Originally posted by Diva
They knew Bin Laden was planning something. WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN NOTIFIED.
Well I am going to tell you something now, which I know is 100% true.
The weekend of 1st June, it is known that a group of terorists ( I cannot say who yet) intend to infect a new virus that will surely bring down all servers and PC that are runing over that time. I know that both the UK government, the American Government and the Israeli Government (and maybe others) will move on Friday afternoon to stand alone systems for critical operations. It is estimated that over 80% of all networked PCs will be affected and infected.
Airports control centres are still safe, but their access to all internet sites will be blocked from Friday 12.00 pm
I personally will not dial in that weekend. Now Diva, I will wait to hear if you shut down NCT. I hope so.
What does it do? Is there more information so that I can inform my friends? If it means that there is nothing to stop it, of course I will shut down.
I hate not knowing these things. More info that I haven't heard about. Sigh
GLADIATOR
05-17-02, 11:36AM
Originally posted by Diva
What does it do? Is there more information so that I can inform my friends? If it means that there is nothing to stop it, of course I will shut down.
I hate not knowing these things. More info that I haven't heard about. Sigh
But you do know. So how you react now you know?
I become more informed about it, like asking my computer analyst who says you're full of crap. ;)
But if it were true then I would still become more informed about what is being done, what percautions I need to take, etc...
Do I panick? No. But the fact when a virus happens, we are informed as to what it does and what it can do. When New Years eve 2000 hit and there was that terrorist threat we were notified. Did it happen? No. Was it because there was tightened security, public awareness and police on alert? Maybe. We'll never know, and I don't mind that. If I never knew exactly what was going to happen on September 11th but didn't I wouldn't mind either. But I want that option.
Originally posted by GLADIATOR
Well I am going to tell you something now, which I know is 100% true.
The weekend of 1st June, it is known that a group of terorists ( I cannot say who yet) intend to infect a new virus that will surely bring down all servers and PC that are runing over that time. I know that both the UK government, the American Government and the Israeli Government (and maybe others) will move on Friday afternoon to stand alone systems for critical operations. It is estimated that over 80% of all networked PCs will be affected and infected.
Airports control centres are still safe, but their access to all internet sites will be blocked from Friday 12.00 pm
I personally will not dial in that weekend. Now Diva, I will wait to hear if you shut down NCT. I hope so.
Come on Gladiator, do we have to take this serious? If this were true then what is stopping you to spill the beans and help to convince people to protect themselves? There has many many rumours before about the internet 'being shutdown' etc but none have proven true. I am not shutting down my machines until I see some more facts.
GLADIATOR
05-17-02, 02:44PM
Originally posted by Diva
I become more informed about it, like asking my computer analyst who says you're full of crap. ;)
But if it were true then I would still become more informed about what is being done, what percautions I need to take, etc...
Do I panick? No. But the fact when a virus happens, we are informed as to what it does and what it can do. When New Years eve 2000 hit and there was that terrorist threat we were notified. Did it happen? No. Was it because there was tightened security, public awareness and police on alert? Maybe. We'll never know, and I don't mind that. If I never knew exactly what was going to happen on September 11th but didn't I wouldn't mind either. But I want that option.
I respond to both you and SysLord.
Well diva you gotta decide in your own mind who has some new facts, and some guy basing his comments on nothing.
I assure you my information is correct and validated. Possible a WW statement will be made, but I can assure the danger exits. Why can I not say more, that's easy, because I cannot give you proof.
Diva your analyst is a tosser, tell him to E mail me directly (you have the address) then I will convince him. If I convince him , will that make you happy?
I told you something you more or less pleaded to know, now you doubt it. Thats fine, but my info will not change. Switch off.
I will keep my eyes and ears open...
Redallnite
05-17-02, 07:51PM
MY GOODNESS!!! I leave for a few days and look at this, fussing over things we have no control over!!!!!!!
GLADIATOR
05-18-02, 02:01AM
Originally posted by Redallnite
MY GOODNESS!!! I leave for a few days and look at this, fussing over things we have no control over!!!!!!!
EXACTLY. Please speak to Diva.
where did you go? Did you have a nice time?
Oh Gladiator... BITEME :p
Red, we had some, not a lot, but some control. You just weren't told about it.
Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-1742641,00.html) - A report written in 1999 by Federal researchers called:``Sociology and Psychology of Terrorism: Who Becomes a Terrorist and Why?'' told that a possible form of retribution for the 1998 airstrike on Osama's camps in Afghanistan might be a suicide hijacking....
The report even stated that the terrorists might hijack a plane and fly it into the Pentagon or other buildings. A terrorist convicted of the WTC bombing in 1995 had also mentioned this possibility. This goes directly against Bush's statements....
Bush declared that the government had no idea that an attack like Sept. 11 would occur. A former CIA Deputy said, U.S. intelligence long has known a suicide hijacker was a possible threat." but there were so many threats - they could not prioritize. Accountability. What is wrong with that?If you knew information, and chose not to act on, which resulted in the loss of a large amount of people which you were responsible for... Would you lie? Knowing that they will dig to find the truth, would you? You were not directly responsible, yet your inability to act led to it... and you are the VIP over the people who could have SHOULD have caught on. Would you take the responsibility that is yours?
They knew, Gladiator. Not dates and times per say. But they knew. And they could have alerted the public, the police, Andy Rooney! When Americans go abroad they are warned to be careful and of possible attacks because of their nationality. They aren't told that on Wednesday at 8:53AM not to get on that plane, but they are told to be more aware. Who knows what was overlooked because they didn't know. Tighten security. Watch known Bin Laden supporters. close the F**king flight school down. Anything. ANYTHING. People would probably still die. One life. One life saved. To wake the American people up to understand that they need to be aware of more than their backyard... It's worth it. And if one plane didn't make it to it's destination? i know. It's wishing and hoping at this point. But the problem is we will never know how many people could have been saved. Our government took that right from us.
If Clinton or Gore were in the Presidency, I would be JUST as angry, just as demanding. Whatever feelings I have for Bush's abilities to run this country, are not the issue here. The issue is what he promised and what he delivered. And that he lied. Again. And he should stand there and look into the camera and tell the American people that they [not just he] fucked up and what they are going to do about it so that in the future we will have the right to be informed. That safeties aren't discarded and that we are not paying for studies and task forces and inquiries that are ignored.
http://www.nochicktrix.com/fun/oth/vb/me/wtc00008.jpg
GLADIATOR
05-18-02, 04:16AM
Diva, what a load of rubbish 1999, they new so little as to be the crime.
Jesus woman, you should be accusing them of what they did NOT know, not what they did.
I posted once before part of the transcript from Oliver Norths trial (how long ago was that) He said the most vile and dangerous man in the world to-day was Osama Bin Laden. Did YOU or anyone take notice? No not one bit, we fail to listen when its staring us in the face, what chance would you act with rumours.
I told you yesterday, about a true virus threat, what have you done, nothing, you think I lie, you think it's a rumour so you do not act. well read yesterdays UK papers, all flights were grounded for @ 3 hrs, that's preparing for what I told you.
Forget what people never told you and start to look for what they are. Bush did nothing wrong, he didn't murder those people you stuck in the picture the fucking teerrorists killed them, go fight them.
Knew so little??? Do some research before you jump at me with words like 'rubbish'. Here, the Library of Congress (http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Sociology-Psychology%20of%20Terrorism.htm) has the complete report dated SEPTEMBER 1999. Why don't don't you read a little before you assume that the government was so innocent and naive on the capabilities of these terrorists... and all the other terrorists. To start you off, here's the section that proves what they DID know:
The leaders of any of these groups--Prabhakaran, bin Laden, and Asahara--could become paranoid, desperate, or simply vengeful enough to order their suicide devotees to employ the belt-bomb technique against the leader of the Western World. Iranian intelligence leaders could order Hizballah to attack the U.S. leadership in retaliation for some future U.S. or Israeli action, although Iran may now be distancing itself from Hizballah. Whether or not a U.S. president would be a logical target of Asahara, Prabhakaran, or bin Laden is not a particularly useful guideline to assess the probability of such an attack. Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi was not a logical target for the LTTE, and his assassination had very negative consequences for the LTTE. In Prabhakaran's "psycho-logic," to use Post's term, he may conclude that his cause needs greater international attention, and targeting a country's top leaders is his way of getting attention. Nor does bin Laden need a logical reason, for he believes that he has a mandate from Allah to punish the "Great Satan." Instead of thinking logically, Asahara thinks in terms of a megalomaniac with an apocalyptic outlook. Aum Shinrikyo is a group whose delusional leader is genuinely paranoid about the United States and is known to have plotted to assassinate Japan's emperor. Shoko Asahara's cult is already on record for having made an assassination threat against President Clinton.
If Iran's mullahs or Iraq's Saddam Hussein decide to use terrorists to attack the continental United States, they would likely turn to bin Laden's al-Qaida. Al-Qaida is among the Islamic groups recruiting increasingly skilled professionals, such as computer and communications technicians, engineers, pharmacists, and physicists, as well as Ukrainian chemists and biologists, Iraqi chemical weapons experts, and others capable of helping to develop WMD. Al-Qaida poses the most serious terrorist threat to U.S. security interests, for al-Qaida's well-trained terrorists are actively engaged in a terrorist jihad against U.S. interests worldwide.
These four groups in particular are each capable of perpetrating a horrific act of terrorism in the United States, particularly on the occasion of the new millennium. Aum Shinrikyo has already threatened to use WMD in downtown Manhattan or in Washington, D.C., where it could attack the Congress, the Pentagon's Concourse, the White House, or President Clinton. The cult has threatened New York City with WMD, threatened to assassinate President Clinton, unsuccessfully attacked a U.S. naval base in Japan with biological weapons, and plotted in 1994 to attack the White House and the Pentagon with sarin and VX. If the LTTE's serial assassin of heads of state were to become angered by President Clinton, Prabhakaran could react by dispatching a Tamil "belt-bomb girl" to detonate a powerful semtex bomb after approaching the President in a crowd with a garland of flowers or after jumping next to his car.
Al-Qaida's expected retaliation for the U.S. cruise missile attack against al-Qaida's training facilities in Afghanistan on August 20, 1998, could take several forms of terrorist attack in the nation's capital. Al-Qaida could detonate a Chechen-type building-buster bomb at a federal building. Suicide bomber(s) belonging to al-Qaida's Martyrdom Battalion could crash-land an aircraft packed with high explosives (C-4 and semtex) into the Pentagon, the headquarters of the CIA, or the White House. Ramzi Yousef had planned to do this against the CIA headquarters. In addition, both al-Qaida and Yousef were linked to a plot to assassinate President Clinton during his visit to the Philippines in early 1995. Following the August 1998 cruise missile attack, at least one Islamic religious leader called for Clinton's assassination, and another stated that "the time is not far off" for when the White House will be destroyed by a nuclear bomb. A horrendous scenario consonant with al-Qaida's mindset would be its use of a nuclear suitcase bomb against any number of targets in the nation's capital. Bin Laden allegedly has already purchased a number of nuclear suitcase bombs from the Chechen Mafia. Al-Qaida's retaliation, however, is more likely to take the lower-risk form of bombing one or more U.S. airliners with time-bombs. Yousef was planning simultaneous bombings of 11 U.S. airliners prior to his capture. Whatever form an attack may take, bin Laden will most likely retaliate in a spectacular wayfor the cruise missile attack against his Afghan camp in August 1998.What did I do when you told me about a threat that is supposed to happen on a specific date in the future??? Did you expect me to shut my computer down today? What did you expect me to do at this point and time? You act as if I insulted you by getting the facts from another source. I would expect no less from you. The fact that you know something that my Government is NOT sharing with the American public makes my point even stronger. I have a right to know if there is a threat to my life, liberty, property. We elect these officials to protect us. To make sure that we are informed. When a man in the UK has knowledge of a virus that is going to hit worldwide a week before hand and yet we are not told shows that our Government is not protecting us, only their own interests. You get upset because I show you why I am angry. Not because of Bush, not because of Republicans, but because our Government failed us. Failed THEM. They died because people dropped the ball. I say Bush because he took the job as President to make sure that this doesn't happen. In the end all is left are words on a board and blood on the ground. THEIR blood. I'll ignore your last statement....
GLADIATOR
05-18-02, 06:42AM
No, I was not insulted at all. Indeed I felt very content that I had won my argument, that even armed with important information, there is NOTHING you could do with it.
The same, if you had had (which you did) information on terrorist activities. Now let me give you some more info. When Sharon visited Bush, he showed and supplied written proof that the teerorist cells still in USA would move to car bombs. Now, i got no more info than that, only to say, the information in MOSSADS opinion is accurate. So Diva, what to do now?
No, I am not insulted at all. If you were my wife, I would tell yo to be quiet, box your ears and send yo to bed. but you are not my wife.
One last point before you explode. In Israel to-day, they know without any doubt the next suicide bomber is coming, they know even to- the day, yes to the day!. Can they stop it? NO, do citizens blame their government ? NO.
Why because you cannot stop what is basicaly Gorilla Warfare.
Now get up to bed woman.
Originally posted by GLADIATOR
No, I am not insulted at all. If you were my wife, I would tell yo to be quiet, box your ears and send yo to bed. but you are not my wife.
LOL, if that were the case, I think you would be in the overnight divorce court ASAP Gladiator!
That is your response? To lower me to some second class citizen in order to claim victory in an argument that you did NOT win. Why? Because you have chosen to pinpoint words and not listen. So clean your ears out, get a hearing aid, put on bifocals and I'll type slowly.
The principle is that information was withheld. I have a right to know if my life is in danger. If there was something that could have been done, then I have a right to know when it is not. You say that you support not telling people? This is not Israel. We do not have bombs going off all the time. But you damn well better believe that the Israeli citizens know of the dangers. This isn't about them preventing as much as it is about doing something, ANYTHING accept for sitting on their asses and waiting for the body count. That is not the government that the people elected.
I showed you DIRECT evidence which you chose not to acknowledge. You are standing up for a government that sat back and withheld information that COULD have made some difference. They had the names, they had the location of the flight school, an Al-Queda terrorist who attempted to learn how to fly AND NOT LAND a commercial airplane, and THEY HAD THE KNOWLEDGE THAT SUICIDE BOMBING WAS INFACT A DEFINATE THREAT. Did you get that part?
A manufacture knows that a flaw in their design could kill people. They wait until people die before recalling the item. Do you support the death of innocent people because they didn’t want to warn the public and lose profit? In America when this happens the company is sued and there have even been times when criminal negligence is involved.
I have a right to know. If my government doesn’t stop it, I don’t blame them. At least they tried. At least they kept us informed of what was happening. They've done it before, why not say anything now?
Could it be that the economy was slipping and that this could push it over the edge? Could it be that they didn't want to be blamed during the next election year? I wish I knew.
Gladiator, I'm only going to say this once. I am an equal. Do not treat me like a fucking dog. You ever tried boxing my ears, I'd bitch slap you back to the UK. :finger: :finger: :finger:
Redallnite
05-18-02, 09:07PM
Diva, I gotta get my can out AGAIN
http://www.nochicktrix.com/fun/oth/vb/red/open_a_can.jpg
GLADIATOR
05-19-02, 01:43AM
Originally posted by Diva
Gladiator, I'm only going to say this once. I am an equal. Do not treat me like a fucking dog. You ever tried boxing my ears, I'd bitch slap you back to the UK. :finger: :finger: :finger:
OK Diva, you can come out of your room now.
Personally I do not care if you feel you have been let down by bush or the American administration, I have given you my argument, and as it's a democracy, you can choose with your feet. In @ 4 yrs you can vote for someone else, but I suspect nothing will change.
And if you cannot take some teasing on a forum without using the 'finger' sign, then I will back off in future and not respond controversially.
What I stated was in jest, I stated if you were my wife. Frankly you should remove vulgar 'finger' smilies, as they do not befit a lady or a gentleman.
Since most people here use the vulgar finger smilies I see no reason to remove such.
Frankly old stick I believe that in this instance you were soundly thrashed by some one who did a superior job on her reserch belted the hell out of you with facts and quotes and generally argued her point with a genuine passion and from an angle of utmost sincerity.
But hell there will be a new debate next week and Im sure you will attack things differently. :)
GLADIATOR
05-19-02, 02:08AM
Originally posted by aussie
Since most people here use the vulgar finger smilies I see no reason to remove such.
Frankly old stick I believe that in this instance you were soundly thrashed by some one who did a superior job on her reserch belted the hell out of you with facts and quotes and generally argued her point with a genuine passion and from an angle of utmost sincerity.
But hell there will be a new debate next week and Im sure you will attack things differently. :)
That's fine to me. I have learnt that losing a debate on a forum, is as important as winning one. You should learn from both, and I do.
On the matter of fingers, well again, everything is personal taste, but if you cannot express yourself with words, then you are lost.
Here endeth my lesson. And thrashed, well i don't feel thrashed at all.
well speaking as one who has been handed a bloody nose on more than one forum and been soundly thrashed on more than one occasion. It was good to stand clear of this one and watch it unfurl as it did. I think any debate where we learn nothing is a total waste of time and if we cant learn from our reversals we are all lost. Im sure your watching amaurote hand me my arse on another forum right now but hell Im also learning quite a bit about Kerensky just from my own reserch let alone the things he`s hitting me with. Im glad to see you can learn from a reversal as well. mate it will only serve to make you a more wily adversary in the future.
*aussie resists the urge to flip the finger in jest at this point*
GLADIATOR
05-19-02, 02:35AM
Originally posted by aussie
well speaking as one who has been handed a bloody nose on more than one forum and been soundly thrashed on more than one occasion. It was good to stand clear of this one and watch it unfurl as it did. I think any debate where we learn nothing is a total waste of time and if we cant learn from our reversals we are all lost. Im sure your watching amaurote hand me my arse on another forum right now but hell Im also learning quite a bit about Kerensky just from my own reserch let alone the things he`s hitting me with. Im glad to see you can learn from a reversal as well. mate it will only serve to make you a more wily adversary in the future.
*aussie resists the urge to flip the finger in jest at this point*
I think this is an important point, and one we can all learn from. Good debate does not make winners or losers, it put points accross, nothing more nothing less.
I have lost a fair amount of debates against the infamous Amaurote, but I never once walked or didn't defend my beliefs. We should also be respected for our views even if they disagree with others.
Personally I think Diva is 100% correct in thinking the American administration fucked up, where I disagree is that no one could have done better. We live in a world run by arrogant tossers.
Anyway, aussie, I respect all the points raised, I am protecting you against AM, so don't worry too much about you nose.
And at times us men, have got to put the woman in ther place, a giood smack round the ear and up to bed (for sex) that was the way of us Colonial Brits. What What old man.
Rule Britania, Britania Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
I have lost a fair amount of debates against the infamous Amaurote, but I never once walked or didn't defend my beliefs. We should also be respected for our views even if they disagree with others.
Yes Ive lost one or two to amaurote my self but at the moment the ledger is fairly well balaced (in my favour) Any debate is a great way to learn and something more people around this forum would be well served to become involved in. Hell you get your arse kicked today but if along the way you can arm your self to kick arse tomorrow how can that be such a bad thing. I also believe it can be a great character builder as well those who can learn to defend them selves in a forum stand a much better chance of doing so in their day to day lives as well
I wouldnt worry to much about protecting me against Am the times I get a kicking off him I can always walk away secure in the knowledge that I was taken apart by a friend and without malice. Also it took a fucker with an MA to beat me so I can live with that quite comfortably.
GLADIATOR
05-19-02, 04:21AM
Originally posted by aussie
Yes Ive lost one or two to amaurote my self but at the moment the ledger is fairly well balaced (in my favour) Any debate is a great way to learn and something more people around this forum would be well served to become involved in. Hell you get your arse kicked today but if along the way you can arm your self to kick arse tomorrow how can that be such a bad thing. I also believe it can be a great character builder as well those who can learn to defend them selves in a forum stand a much better chance of doing so in their day to day lives as well
I wouldnt worry to much about protecting me against Am the times I get a kicking off him I can always walk away secure in the knowledge that I was taken apart by a friend and without malice. Also it took a fucker with an MA to beat me so I can live with that quite comfortably.
MA? = Mad about Aussies.
Hey I can kick your ass, just with a driving license. ha ha
Originally posted by GLADIATOR
MA? = Mad about Aussies.
Hey I can kick your ass, just with a driving license. ha ha
Mate with a car as fast as that ute I dont need a drivers licence I could deliver you a sound thrashing on a bicycle
GLADIATOR
05-24-02, 04:14AM
It's not my typical style of post (too long) But I too decided to gather some info, it took a bit longer, but if you are interested these are the facts.
10 July 2002 - FBI agent Ken Williams sends HQ a memo about Middle Eastern students at an Arizona flight school, theorising al-Qaeda could be using them for a plot. In February the FAA had investigated hijacker Hani Hanjour while he was studying at another Arizona school.
Agent Williams wrote the memo on 5 July detailing his suspicions about some Arabs he had been watching. The memo was sent to the counter-terrorism division at FBI headquarters in Washington and to two field offices, including the counter-terrorism section in New York, which has had long experience in al-Qaeda investigations.
Than experience counted for nothing. In all three offices, the memo was pretty much ignored, disappearing into the black hole of bureaucratic hell that is the FBI. That was the second key mistake. Sources tell Time that the memo was never forwarded - not even to the level of Mike Rolince, chief of the international terrorism section. “The thing fell into the laps of people who were grossly overtaxed,” says a senior FBI official.
Everyone is caught up in the blame game. But nobody talks much about the fact that the now famous Phoenix FBI memo, which warned last July that terrorists might be studying in American flight schools, is hardly unusual. The memo raised the possibility of attacks similar to what occurred. But reams of other, equally plausible memos - written before and after 11/9 are in the files as well. A constant stream of theories and proposals comes from FBI field offices to the bureau’s headquarters in Washington.
The Phoneix memo’s main proposal, a nationwide sweep of flight schools in search of al-Qaeda terrorists, now appears to be solid and rational. But if I had been a unit chief at FBI headquarters reading it last summer, my first through would have been that such a sweep would lead to a massive hie and cry over “profiling” of Muslims. I would have been disinclined to push the memo upstairs. To justfy such a sweep would have required far more than knowing that bin Laden was possibly trying to hijack a plane.
The public expects FBI agents to use instinct to surgically extract terrorists from society - and to do it without inconveniencing the public or infringing on innocent lives. Americans have unrealistic expectations about what law enforcement can do in a society in which personal freedom is deemed more important than public safety. Americans say they will give anything to be safe from terrorists. They do not really mean it. They would rather live in a free society than be completely safe. That means some dots will never be connected.
Here endeth the argument and the facts.
The memo in itself is indeed a hit and miss suggestion. But you can pull apart ALL the information, tips and warnings and do this if you would like. Point to an egg, I can't say that it is a cake. Point to flour, nope it's not cake either. And so on, and so forth. But information put together? It's a terrorist attack. Ingredients put together? A cake.
They were aware of heightened activity within the Al-Qeada group, there were threats and attempts to kill the president, there was an arrested Al-Qaeda who admitted to trying to bomb planes and fly one into the CIA headquarters, they were aware of the fact that Bin Laden was actively seeking revenge on the USA for the bombing. There was a 1999 report that stated suicide hijacking was a threat to be concerned with, I'd go on but you can read the other posts.
The information coming to light is the key. They KNEW something was happening. They knew of the threat and did not warn airport security, law enforcement, flight schools, airport hiring background checks, or the American public. This is the whole problem. This is what I have been saying ALL ALONG. Responsibility ultimately lies with the President and his cabinet members. He hired people because he thought that they would do their job. This isn't a puzzle. Their job is to gather information, put it together and keep us safe.
Do you want to brush this aside and say 'oh well'? Don't you think that accountability and learning of the error SO THAT IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN is important? I'm not talking impeachment; I'm not talking about firing anyone.... I'm talking saving lives. I'm talking about responsibility. You are so busy trying to be 'Republican' that you are missing the point. I don't care who was in the White House when this happened. This isn't about politics; it's about failure, assessment and rectifying that failure. Will it happen again? Probably. They've got a taste of success and they have people here ready. But doing nothing and waiting for the body count is UNACCEPTABLE.
GLADIATOR
05-24-02, 08:09AM
I was not argueing, just adding to the facts.
I don't know who was quoting these 'facts' to you, but they're off in left field somewhere, hence my reaction. The FBI as well as local law enforcement can detain, arrest, enforce and anything else they want. And they have and continue to do. While human rights are an issue, they are put into place so that there is no abuse. But I have friends on different levels of law enforcement who have had to 'impose' on peoples' rights in order to protect the public. I stand 100% behind them. A friend of mine was met at gunpoint and ordered to lay flat on the ground, arms spread. He complied and they searched him. After a brief time time explained that a robber fitting his description and car was in the area. Then they left. He was miffed for a bit, especially when I said that they were doing their job and ultimately protecting him. Dr XXXX got over it and went home to his wife and child. That's when he understood what I meant by supporting them.
I'm glad that we have come to an understanding on this issue and that you are simply adding information instead of attempting to debate this further. To quote A great warrior:
"Here endeth the lesson."
GLADIATOR
05-24-02, 03:07PM
Originally posted by Diva
I don't know who was quoting these 'facts' to you, but they're off in left field somewhere, hence my reaction. The FBI as well as local law enforcement can detain, arrest, enforce and anything else they want. And they have and continue to do. While human rights are an issue, they are put into place so that there is no abuse. But I have friends on different levels of law enforcement who have had to 'impose' on peoples' rights in order to protect the public. I stand 100% behind them. A friend of mine was met at gunpoint and ordered to lay flat on the ground, arms spread. He complied and they searched him. After a brief time time explained that a robber fitting his description and car was in the area. Then they left. He was miffed for a bit, especially when I said that they were doing their job and ultimately protecting him. Dr XXXX got over it and went home to his wife and child. That's when he understood what I meant by supporting them.
I'm glad that we have come to an understanding on this issue and that you are simply adding information instead of attempting to debate this further. To quote A great warrior:
"Here endeth the lesson."
Agreed. All departments made vast mistakes for a number of stupid reasons. The article I posted came from a MOSSAD report, so it's unbiased to USA.
Hey we all got to live our own lifes and thoughts.
-GLADIATOR
Sonic45473
05-26-02, 01:06AM
Originally posted by Diva
You should read more! He's slipping in the polls as we speak. His great energy summits [I.E. sleeping with Enron] and Alaskan failure are taking it's toll. His redneck stomping attitude is alienating world leaders. I've never seen such a bad case of 'Foot-in-Mouth' disease in my life. He's using a war that could unite us and instead saying 'you're either with us or against us' quips only weakens our cause.
He has been unable to fulfill most of his campaign promises and is two years into the job. Most businesses would have canned his arse after 6 months for failure to produce. His knew campaign on welfare reaks of failure. '
Three hundred million dollars to have couples sit down and say, "Get married"??? That's his plan? I want my money back!
PSSST! Hi! *Gives Usantics big hug
For us or against us. Doesn't that remind anyone of Jesus? Did those words weaken his cause. Jesus had a devine purpose and so does the United States. And if you don't believe that then i don't want to hear about it until you educate yourself and how this country came to be. Basically, don't bitch unless you have read Christopher Columbus's diary and know the significance of, "Send men there." Praise the Lord we have a president in office who understands this even though most of the US may not. If you think Bush does such a bad job then why is he President and not you. He's a little ahead of your game and everyone has to accept that we are not as smart as we think we are and let the President to his job. He is our leader and the bible says we must support him. For God sakes, the enemy is overseas, not here in the US.
GLADIATOR
05-26-02, 02:03AM
Originally posted by Sonic45473
For us or against us. Doesn't that remind anyone of Jesus? Did those words weaken his cause. Jesus had a devine purpose and so does the United States. And if you don't believe that then i don't want to hear about it until you educate yourself and how this country came to be. Basically, don't bitch unless you have read Christopher Columbus's diary and know the significance of, "Send men there." Praise the Lord we have a president in office who understands this even though most of the US may not. If you think Bush does such a bad job then why is he President and not you. He's a little ahead of your game and everyone has to accept that we are not as smart as we think we are and let the President to his job. He is our leader and the bible says we must support him. For God sakes, the enemy is overseas, not here in the US.
Good for you Sonic, I agree your points. Welcome to NCT.
Sonic, ask Gladiator what a sound thrashing is...
Originally posted by Sonic45473 For us or against us. Doesn't that remind anyone of Jesus? Did those words weaken his cause.I'm Jewish, next...
Originally posted by Sonic45473 Jesus had a devine purpose and so does the United States.The United States of America is joining the rest of the world in the effort to stop terrorism. We did not start this effort, the fight against terrorism has been going on for years. We just gave this round the spiffy name. You need to peruse the list of the dead and missing from that day. People from all over the world lost their lives. This is a joint effort, no individual Man calls the shots.
Let me also correct your use of the term 'Divine purpose'. We are fighting a war on terrorism. This is not the Crusades. People of many different faiths are fighting the same cause.
Originally posted by Sonic45473 And if you don't believe that then I don't want to hear about it until you educate yourself and how this country came to be.This country came to be because men and women fought for freedom. Again, there was NO divine intervention. Do not school me about the history of our country based on the Bible. Your Bible. Many Men fought and died for the right to freedom. If you would like to educate yourself on the actual events that led up to, and caused the American Revolution {I. E. The Boston Massacre, The Boston Tea Party, and The Stamp Act}, feel free to study using this site (http://www.ctbw.com/jones.htm) for starters. Originally posted by Sonic45473 Basically, don't bitch unless you have read Christopher Columbus's diary and know the significance of, "Send men there." Praise the Lord we have a president in office who understands this even though most of the US may not. First of all, Christopher Columbus stepped foot on foreign soil and slaughtered the original owners. Might I remind you that thousands of Native indians died from his orders. I certainly do not want our country viewed in that light, do you? We are fighting a war to stop this very act of brutality.
Originally posted by Sonic45473 If you think Bush does such a bad job then why is he President and not you. He's a little ahead of your game and everyone has to accept that we are not as smart as we think we are and let the President to his job. If I had a brother in Florida, a father with deep pockets in Texas and a cocktail waitress deciding which votes count then you can call me President Diva. I did not vote for him and will not vote for him, so don't even go there. If the President did his job then I wouldn't have had to start this thread, now would I? I think that is is equally important that people know what is going on and have a voice in their Government. It's called Democracy. You should look that up.
Originally posted by Sonic45473 He is our leader and the bible says we must support him.Where in the Bible does it say that we must support the President of the United States? To my knowledge, there was no United States to have a President to support when the Bible was written. Or is this in the New Testiment?
Originally posted by Sonic45473 For God sakes, the enemy is overseas, not here in the US. As I have said before, the President is not my enemy. It is accountability that I expect. That is our right. And I quote:
Originally posted by Diva Do you want to brush this aside and say 'oh well'? Don't you think that accountability and learning of the error SO THAT IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN is important? I'm not talking impeachment; I'm not talking about firing anyone.... I'm talking saving lives. I'm talking about responsibility. You are so busy trying to be 'Republican' that you are missing the point. I don't care who was in the White House when this happened. This isn't about politics; it's about failure, assessment and rectifying that failure. Will it happen again? Probably. They've got a taste of success and they have people here ready. But doing nothing and waiting for the body count is UNACCEPTABLE.
Redallnite
05-26-02, 04:34AM
Come on ya'll, just leave my President alone. It's Memorial weekend in the United States, let us just remember how all our other Presidents that were ASS KICKERS!!
Originally posted by Redallnite
Come on ya'll, just leave my President alone. It's Memorial weekend in the United States, let us just remember how all our other Presidents that were ASS KICKERS!!
Yes Marie I think they are all going just a bit to far in attacking Your Commander in Theif like that. I dont see how people ever feel good while attacking retards like that. Shame Diva!! thats just to cruel
GLADIATOR
05-26-02, 08:37AM
Originally posted by Diva
Sonic, ask Gladiator what a sound thrashing is...
You see Diva, I never considered that I either lost or won that argument/debate. You presented facts to back up your dissapointment of Bush and his administration, I presented equal facts explaing why. You still feel let down, which I respect, but truly cannot see where you are coming from.
This weekend the FBI/CIA released terrorist warnings on Scuba Divers, so armed with that info what can we do? Basically nothing.
Personally, I think you should be far more angry and concerned how little improvements have been made at USA airports since 11/9 as promised by your Government. I recently read a report that basically shows absolutely nothing has been done to stop or block a repeat of 9/11. Neither at your airports or at your harbours. That to me is a far more important issue.
USA is a terrorist disaster waiting to happen, then when it does, we should claim Bush and his admin, the past is done, it was typical intelligence cockup, nothing more nothing less.
Redallnite
05-26-02, 02:25PM
*Aussie gets a swift kick in the ass from one of Marie's BIG gifs.*:eek:
http://www.nochicktrix.com/fun/oth/vb/red/danger_e0.gif
You were given a warning, Gladiator. That's the point. What can you do? It's up to the authorities, securities, etc... to tighten their watch. It's up to the citizen keep alert and live their lives knowing a possibility that they didn't know existed before. They have warnings about bringing toasters in the bath but they can't warn about hijackers crashing planes???
Earlier in the thread you argued that they wouldnt even know what the threat was, now I have shown you documents and reports that they in fact DID know. Thedifference here is that you were warned. You know SOMETHING. That has been my point through this whole thing. Just because they can't give a solution does not mean that they should hide the problem. Especially when the problem will result in DEATH. We have had other attempts to hijack/crash planes since... Do you remember them? The people were able to stop the terrorists. They knew the consequences of not doing anything. The Government knew that the 'traditional' hijacking was only an option, but not the more likely result. But now the poeple know. We can look into Airport security, and talk with our feet. We can vote out people who are not working in the best interest of the public. We KNOW SOMETHING!
Earlier you had prematurely stated that you won this debate. Now you state that there are no winners and losers. I gave you information that validated my points. Facts. You make statements saying my main point has an agenda against the President. If he knew then he should come clean. Again, no one is looking for impeachment. Apparently you have to be Democratic and get a blow job for that. I only want his thin lips to admit that what he knew, what his cabinet knew and what they plan to do to change things. The Presidency is not an easy position. When something goes wrong within their caginet, the ultimate blame goes to the top guy by default. Being in your position, you should know how the blame game works. Especially since he isn't tossing his staff in the path of blame. But we are not even seeking blame here. We want to know when they knew, why they didn't think that it was important and an assurance that they are now changing their protocol.
Why do I still feel let down? You never proved to me that I should feel otherwise. You don't have the facts as to why they did it. The investigation has not even begun. That's why there needs to be an investigation. You don't have, nor are you privy to, the inside scoop on this. But what I am hoping for is that the investigation will bring about change in policies and procedures. I doubt that Bush will want to change anything. It's too close to the next election and G-d forbid he should admit when he is wrong. He has yet to. But the next President hopefully will head the call to protect it's citizens and read ALL the information given to him, hire a cabinet that will be pro active and at least TRY do do something.
Just to clarify things... I feel that there should be an investigation and that Bush should admit to what he knew. I believe that the investigation will bring to light a need for new protocols and for the reports to be watched closer.
You believe I am simply bullying Bush and to leave him alone. Is that about right? Oh and that there is no need to try and find better ways to protect the citizens and to warn the citizens about potential dangers... Is that about right?
Originally posted by GLADIATOR
Personally I think Diva is 100% correct in thinking the American administration fucked up, where I disagree is that no one could have done better. We live in a world run by arrogant tossers.
Hear!! Hear!! This world is run by arrogant, egotistical, er, tossers (?) I think we can all agree to that. The deluge of info that
must be investigated and verified would be suffocating and blame could never be laid on any one person. I would hope that this forum will give us all the motivation for vigilance.
CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/06/03/terror.lapses/index.html) Quote:
Sen. Richard Shelby predicted today that hearings opening Tuesday on pre-September 11 intelligence lapses will highlight more "big failures." The inquiry comes amid new reports that the CIA tracked two of the hijackers for months before the attacks, but did not alert the FBI or any other agencies.
http://www.nochicktrix.com/fun/oth/vb/blue/hijackfailure.jpg
SIGH... The argument isn't WHO could have done better, but that it SHOULD have been done better.
You want to point out what he did right... then be prepared to acknowledge what went wrong. Accountability. We deserve at least that. Something went wrong. And now people are admitting that had they paid attention and acted on information given to them 9-11 could have been less of a disaster, if not completely saved. Yes, they are saying that too. Why won't you accept the fact that something went wrong and we have to try and find a way to fix it? This isn't about politics, for cripes sake. It's about failure, assessment and correction.
Ok Usantic if you think the ass kisser deluxe is so dam good just consider what the bastard has done since Sept 11 take a look at the harm me is doing your national reputation the damage he is doing to the integrity of the United States. Look at the liberties he has taken from American citizens and the power granted to him self. That whole event gave your government the chance to declare war. A "War on Terrorism." War is probably the easiest and best way to BOOST the economy... Almost always in American history, when you go into a depression, it is followed by a war to dig you out of it.
There will ALWAYS be TERRORISM in this world. You have declared a war that will NEVER END. Think about it... it can't possibly end... They know that this will be the greatest thing for your economy.
It fucking disgusts me. Your government loses over 3000 of its own people, and then declares a never-ending war, that kills just as many innocent Afghan civilians.
Look at the other gains for Herr Bush (your furer)
1) Now you have control of the afghan government you can build a huge fucking pipe line through their country all thanks to the war on terror. Who will benefit from that? if not the furer? And his oil buddies
2) The American government now has military bases in Uzbekistan that you are probably never leaving. That now gives The American government now has a much stronger military influence over the area.
3) This area used to be soviet dominated, the soviets left and look who is moving in.
4) Then they were able to pass quite a few new laws boosting their power and restricting the rights of their citizens, the 'usa-patriot act' in particular, that's quite a bit of gain.
5) Now The American government has sort of a shadow enemy to rally the U.S. against, terrorists are anyone the U.S. doesn't agree with, and the U.S. will tack that label on to anyone that doesn't agree with its interests. 'Axis of evil'.
6) And now they get a few billion dollar budget increase for the military,
7) The American government has still been bombing Iraq, and now they have proposed an invasion to topple Saddam Hussein.
Which would be a horrible move at this point in time, as it would show the world once again, that the U.S. claims the right to overthrow any government it doesn't like
these are just a few of the things the American Government is up to
Originally posted by GLADIATOR
Well I am going to tell you something now, which I know is 100% true.
The weekend of 1st June, it is known that a group of terorists ( I cannot say who yet) intend to infect a new virus that will surely bring down all servers and PC that are runing over that time. I know that both the UK government, the American Government and the Israeli Government (and maybe others) will move on Friday afternoon to stand alone systems for critical operations. It is estimated that over 80% of all networked PCs will be affected and infected.
Airports control centres are still safe, but their access to all internet sites will be blocked from Friday 12.00 pm
I personally will not dial in that weekend. Now Diva, I will wait to hear if you shut down NCT. I hope so.
Well it's June4th today and what happened over the weekend? *BUPKES* *NADA* *ZILCH*
Did the terrorists back off or decide to watch the soccer world cup instead?
Redallnite
06-04-02, 02:13AM
bla bla bla bla
I think Red is trying to say that she knows her president is a dumb *ss but that she got to stick by him. :D
Redallnite
06-04-02, 02:41AM
No - I guess I'm just bored of the same ole thing over and over again, just worded differently.
I guess that could be the second explaination!
Originally posted by aussie
Ok Usantic if you think the ass kisser deluxe is so dam good just consider what the bastard has done since Sept 11 take a look at the harm me is doing your national reputation the damage he is doing to the integrity of the United States. Look at the liberties he has taken from American citizens and the power granted to him self. That whole event gave your government the chance to declare war. A "War on Terrorism." War is probably the easiest and best way to BOOST the economy... Almost always in American history, when you go into a depression, it is followed by a war to dig you out of it.
So we as a country should just turn the other cheek and take what is our due. I take it you believe we formulated this whole attack just so we could pop off a few caps and get our "war machine" crankin' out $$$. You are wrong my friend, the U.S. has gone to the tool box to use all items at its disposal to root out the cowards that want to bring down our open society. Granted, terrorism will always be nipping at the heels of those who strive for peace, but there should always be some one there for the bastards to answer to. Don't you think?
There will ALWAYS be TERRORISM in this world. You have declared a war that will NEVER END. Think about it... it can't possibly end... They know that this will be the greatest thing for your economy.
It fucking disgusts me. Your government loses over 3000 of its own people, and then declares a never-ending war, that kills just as many innocent Afghan civilians.
War never ends Aussie,,,sad but true. Some one always needs to feel vindicated. I'm sure in your liberal way of thinking all of the global problems stem from U.S. policy.
Look at the other gains for Herr Bush (your furer)
1) Now you have control of the afghan government you can build a huge fucking pipe line through their country all thanks to the war on terror. Who will benefit from that? if not the furer? And his oil buddies
Oh yeah, I forgot that we should leave that country as destitute as we found it
2) The American government now has military bases in Uzbekistan that you are probably never leaving. That now gives The American government now has a much stronger military influence over the area.
Thats right, good plan in my opinion......ITS CALLED LOGISTICS
3) This area used to be soviet dominated, the soviets left and look who is moving in..
Don't even try to compare our tactics to the former soviets that tried to stamp out all Afghans. I wonder how much cash and aid the soviets dumped into that country? Care to take a guess?
4) Then they were able to pass quite a few new laws boosting their power and restricting the rights of their citizens, the 'usa-patriot act' in particular, that's quite a bit of gain.
Thats what I love about our system, we can vote things in and out. I don't mind giving up a few personal liberties for a period to track down some one that would bring harm to my family or friends. How would you find these fellows Aussie? Jeez I forgot!!!!!! You don't want them found! You want them to bring down this society. Wow the light just came on. I see no further need to respond. Either with these laws or without them our liberties are at risk. I prefer legislated rule of law than anarchy.
5) Now The American government has sort of a shadow enemy to rally the U.S. against, terrorists are anyone the U.S. doesn't agree with, and the U.S. will tack that label on to anyone that doesn't agree with its interests. 'Axis of evil'.
Are you saying you side with people that leave bombs in theatres and marketplaces in southeast asia? Those dictators in Korea Iran and Iraq certainly don't rule with iron fists and cater to training these guerrilla outfits do they? Lets just let them go about their business of training murderers.
6) And now they get a few billion dollar budget increase for the military,
Yippee!!!! NEW TOYS!
7) The American government has still been bombing Iraq, and now they have proposed an invasion to topple Saddam Hussein.
Which would be a horrible move at this point in time, as it would show the world once again, that the U.S. claims the right to overthrow any government it doesn't like
these are just a few of the things the American Government is up to
No such movement has been made in that respect Aussie, Its called sabre rattling. I wanna keep Saddam quakin' in his boots and looking over his shoulder and poppin' caps into his advisors sooner or later, an opposition "terrorist" will get close enough to off that scumball. Listen my friend, I hate war just as much as you do, but I love my country and will travel to the ends of the earth to defend her and give others in those lands the opportunity of free will.
GLADIATOR
06-04-02, 09:16AM
Well I am just back from USA, and feel I got a better feeling as to the mood of people.
What concerns me is that USA and UK is "Dammed if they do and dammed if they do not." In other words when we do turn a blind eye to the attrocities and suffering of people in other countries, we get condemmed, and when we interfere we also get condemmed.
I think the real issue hear is peoples motives. If our Governments are acting honestly and within the right motives for both our country and the other country, thats fine. However too much is done and or decided in the name of decency, when really it's just down to $$$$
Im suspect Bush is basically honest, but totally naive, does that make him a criminal?
Im suspect Bush is basically honest, but totally naive, does that make him a criminal?
bush is basicaly a very naive criminal. Now perhaps you can tell me how the UK got involved in this?
GLADIATOR
06-04-02, 10:19AM
Originally posted by aussie
bush is basicaly a very naive criminal. Now perhaps you can tell me how the UK got involved in this?
Like USA, UK stands up always for democracy. Two world wars (not USA in WWI).Iraq, Korea, Falklands are testimony to that.
Now go and comment the main point of my post, and not sarcasim.
If he is a criminal, impeach him, if he is naive, well do not vote him back.
Like USA, UK stands up always for democracy. Two world wars (not USA in WWI).Iraq, Korea, Falklands are testimony to that.
If its democracy you want to talk about Gladiator perhaps if I were to post a list of democraticly elected governments in south america alone that were overthrown by the United States in order to install a series of despots and dictators That might make you happy. Who do you think armed and kept in power that shining light of democracy Sadam Hussein, The Shar Of Iran, Ferdinand Marcos and Pol Pot. Lovely democratic people Gladiator just fucking lovely!
And that is being sarcastic.
For the list of South American Dictators look to the thread "terrorist training school (do we bomb it)
So we as a country should just turn the other cheek and take what is our due. I take it you believe we formulated this whole attack just so we could pop off a few caps and get our "war machine" crankin' out $$$. You are wrong my friend, the U.S. has gone to the tool box to use all items at its disposal to root out the cowards that want to bring down our open society. Granted, terrorism will always be nipping at the heels of those who strive for peace, but there should always be some one there for the bastards to answer to. Don't you think?
Why would you take it that I believe the US formulated the sept 11 attacks believe me Im not, however it didn’t take the old arse kisser deluxe long to declare a war and get that old war machine crankin out the $$$ did it. Can you tell me why for years the US has preached restraint when countries like Israel attempted to deal with the terrorists that were trying to bring down their open society. Is it only when it’s the US that’s hit by terrorists that its ok to tear another country apart in retaliation. Why do you believe it’s the role of the united states in this universe to be the ones that every one has to answer to. Your furer rules only one small part of this globe Usantics he is not the king of the world in any ones eyes but your own.
War never ends Aussie,,,sad but true. Some one always needs to feel vindicated. I'm sure in your liberal way of thinking all of the global problems stem from U.S. policy.
Its sad that you cant see that war does end usantics two world wars have come and gone a myriad of smaller skirmishes have all been fought and resolved. Even your own war of Northern aggression eventually ended. If youre a betting man its no wonder you need to work so hard at that shop of yours because if your sure of my thinking Im sorry to tell you your wrong again.
Oh yeah, I forgot that we should leave that country as destitute as we found it
Since I have posted against you often enough to know you arnt stupid enough to believe that
a) a pipe line running through Afghanistan is going to bring prosperity to the country.
b) the united states will build the pipe line and then want no interest in the natural gas it carries
c) the united states bombing held no part in said destitution
there fore I shall delve no further into that one
Thats right, good plan in my opinion......ITS CALLED LOGISTICS
Yes it’s a great plan isn’t it. The US government make great guests they come to visit then forget to leave again. You do of corse realise that is exactly the behaviour in Saudi Arabia that set Ousama Bin Laden off in the first place. Are you and the American government really so conceited as to believe the rest of the world really wants you in their countries? Don’t forget your government ASKED Uzbekistan if they could set up a temporary base there not move in and set up a military presence in their country. Have you never had house guests come to visit who were rude enough not to know when to leave? Yes usantics creating a few more Bin Ladens is a great plan isnt it.
Any way mate its late and Im going to bed so I`ll answer the rest of these when I get up :)
Thats what I love about our system, we can vote things in and out. I don't mind giving up a few personal liberties for a period to track down some one that would bring harm to my family or friends. How would you find these fellows Aussie? Jeez I forgot!!!!!! You don't want them found! You want them to bring down this society. Wow the light just came on. I see no further need to respond. Either with these laws or without them our liberties are at risk. I prefer legislated rule of law than anarchy.
I normally shun links like the plague they are a lazy way to post but at times even I dont have an option. America was so badly screwed by this little gem that there is just to much to post in a forum. Suffice to say the CIA is now back in the business of spying on
Americans (http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/Terrorism_militias/20011031_eff_usa_patriot_analysis.html)
All I can say to this Aussie is that I have nothing to hide. I can relate to your level of concern in this matter, but I don't carry the paranoia for my government that I used to after Nixon abused our trust. I'm sure that abuses will occur, its human nature. I would think that those abuses would occur even if this law were not in place. Call me an optimist, I want criminals caught and convicted.
What is the correct answer to this dilemma my friend? Do we only allow law enforcement to wander blindly and wait for an attack of various sorts to occur and then proceed to prosecute? Or do we try to stop the problem before it occurs? I would prefer the latter, stop any bastard before he maims, robs, destroys, rapes, or kills an innocent party.
jackwright
06-10-02, 01:06PM
I kind of think that the CIA, FBI, NSC and upper level administration, all, had prior knowledge of what was happening, a long time before 9/11. They let it happen because it was convienient.
All togather now.
They wouldn't do that to us !!
And I say, Bullshit.
GLADIATOR
06-10-02, 02:40PM
Originally posted by jackwright
I kind of think that the CIA, FBI, NSC and upper level administration, all, had prior knowledge of what was happening, a long time before 9/11. They let it happen because it was convienient.
All togather now.
They wouldn't do that to us !!
And I say, Bullshit.
That's the biggest load of crap I ever heard, and an insult to many people.
There is no hidden agenda, FBI, CIA and yes the administration fucked up. But they did not let it happen for convenience. There is neither evidence nor even a inclination of that.
The real dispute now is, not the past, it's done and finished but how to prevent the future. I sincerely wish we could give one country / piece of land to all you whingers and unbelievers.
The USA s really trying it's best to support a free world. They are dammed when they do step in (Afganistan ect) and they are dammed if they do not (Middle East)
The word that comes to my mind is 'ungrateful' so you do not like it. Leave, no one forces you to stay in USA. Go to Japan, go to Germany, go to Palestine.
Bullshit is not an answer, it's just passing the buck.
jackwright
06-10-02, 03:14PM
I see. So what you're saying is that these agencies, and their thugs, are above that type of activity? Fuckin' wake up GLAD, get yourself into the news (http://www.unknownnews.net) and away from the propaganda (http://www.newsmax.com/). You're being lied to and you believe it because it is convenient. That's pretty ugly.
And fuck off for implying, that because I refuse to support tyrants and terrorists, that I belong in an institution or should leave.
I've not implied any hidden agenda. I stated that their is various agencies that had prior knowledge. That is fact. That they chose not to do anything, implies agenda. An agenda, by the way that fits right in with your beliefs.
The US could give a shit less about any free world. Jesus Fuckin' H. Christ !!
Hey Im with Jackwright on this one where in thre fuck do you get off thinking you can tell a citizen of a country you dont live in that they should leave. You above all people who have no sense of loyalty to any country would never understand. Most people who are loyal to their country stay and try and change things. You on the other hand run from scotland to england now your planing to run to spain but you really want to run to america where every thing is rosy and the government supports your free world, Fuck Gladiator you bounce around like a fucking pin ball.
Wake up and smell the roses man we dont all walk around blindly saying "if the US government says its ok then all is well in the world" Believe it or not thats not true there are still those of us who reserve the right to question what we dont agree with
jackwright
06-10-02, 05:09PM
At the risk of sounding fececious, I don't believe that it's the 'free world' that GLAD worships so blindly, it is a free 'market'. A free market, by the way, that insures that 98% of the power and money remains in the hands of 10% of the people. Fortunately, for the free market nazis, there is that 60% of the population that is just well enough fed that it's simple to buy into all that 'free market' propaganda. God praise the mainstream.
Either the heat is gettin' to ya out there or you weren't ventilating very well when you were smelting Jack. You say you won't support the tyrants that run our government, but you'll snap up any money they send your way. How many letters have you sent to your representative or senator at the state level or
federal? They can't hear ya if you just rant and rave out there in the desert. I get the feeling you'd prefer NO government at all or if any, it should be socialistic so that every lazyass can get a piece of what hard work produces.
jackwright
06-12-02, 07:39AM
I see. So, Am I to understand that since I feel that to fund murder, oppression, exploition and incarceration of, not only Amerikans, but people throughout the world, with the fruits of my labor is morally wrong, I am some kind of lazyass ?
I never said you were a lazyass Jack, but if its not too time consuming, you may want to use that little spellcheck option at the bottom of the post prep page.
As I stated earlier, YOU can ELECT a government official that sees things your way. Otherwise, you will need to abide by the rule and policies of the land. Now, if you feel that won't make a difference, ( and it probably wouldn't because those departments tend to do whatever their hearts desire ) perhaps YOU need to form a concerned citizens group to topple the powers that be.
Of course you will most likely be labeled a threat to the safety of the duly elected government and tossed away to brood over just how horrible our free society operates.:moon:
jackwright
06-12-02, 01:38PM
I'd never even noticed it was there...
Free... (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/showcase/chi-0206110205jun11.story)society ?? (http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2449.html) Riiiiiight. (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/020617/usnews/17secret.htm)
Jacqueline Paasch will receive $700,000 from the Village of West Milwaukee, in compensation for being shot in the leg during a marijuana raid.
West Milwaukee police asked the tactical unit of the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Department to raid her home after receiving an "anonymous tip" about "possible drug activity," and then finding some pot seeds in a garbage can near her house.
At 6:30am, April 7, 2000, Paasch heard a noise in her home. She got out of bed, and was walking downstairs when she was shot by Deputy Scott Mathis, who said he thought she had a weapon and that he was in "imminent danger." No weapon was found, and although a 16-year old boy was arrested on suspicion of possessing marijuana, no charges were ever laid.
The district attorney's office ruled the shooting was "justified," and no disciplinary action was taken against the Deputy Mathis.
Mate I dont believe she needed to be armed with a gun or a knife. lets not rule out PMS here
I never said you were a lazyass Jack, but if its not too time consuming, you may want to use that little spellcheck option at the bottom of the post prep page.
To attack a persons spelling or grammar you must really be running out of steam there usantics. I think you should concentrate more on the arguement its self rather than the way its delivered. Personal attacks only serve to make you appear lowbrow and neanderthal and do little for your arguements.
http://www.bluemeany.com/gif/happy/hap043.gif
Originally posted by aussie
[QUOTE]
To attack a persons spelling or grammar you must really be running out of steam there usantics. I think you should concentrate more on the arguement its self rather than the way its delivered. Personal attacks only serve to make you appear lowbrow and neanderthal and do little for your arguements.
http://www.bluemeany.com/gif/happy/hap043.gif [/B]
Beg pardon,,,I saw it as a mere suggestion. He mentioned himself that he did not know it was there. I believe that I have assisted him rather than attack him Aussie. If you want to attack me as being lowbrow or neanderthal for directing folks to aids that this site offers I can't stand in your way.
Originally posted by usantic
Beg pardon,,,I saw it as a mere suggestion. He mentioned himself that he did not know it was there. I believe that I have assisted him rather than attack him Aussie. If you want to attack me as being lowbrow or neanderthal for directing folks to aids that this site offers I can't stand in your way.
I stand corrected sorry
I originally planned to post this in the strongest emotion thread but decided that he ass kisser deluxe thread might be a better one to air things
If Saddam is a horrible to the United States, 6,000 miles away, is he not a vastly larger threat to Israel next door? Yet tiny Israel seems less alarmed than Bush and has not launched a pre-emptive strike. What does Ariel Sharon know that we do not? Is it that Israel is not coveting Iraq’s oil reserves?
And if Iraq intends to use nuclear weapons to dominate the entire Middle East, why has Iran not launched a pre-emptive strike, before being made a satellite by Saddam? Turks, Egyptians, Iranians, Saudis, Kuwaitis, Jordanians, Israelis – none of these people appear as frightened of Saddam Hussein as the president of the most powerful nation on earth. Why? Would it be that they are not interested in empire building?
Should Saddam get nuclear weapons, says Cheney, he "will subject the United States to nuclear blackmail." I'm sorry, but there is serious doubt Saddam is close to a nuclear weapon. Where is the proof of this Muslim bomb that has bush running scared and there is serious doubt he would ever dare try to blackmail the US anyway.
Stalin acquired nuclear weapons in 1949, but did not blackmail America out of Berlin. Mao acquired nuclear weapons in 1964, but did not blackmail America out of Taiwan. Khrushchev, with a thousand times as many weapons of mass destruction as Saddam is ever likely to have, tried to intimidate Kennedy in the Cuban missile crisis. Was he able to?
Ever wonder why Israel stayed outta tha Gulf War Aussie? Wouldn't Israel's attack of Iraq throw the whole of the Arab states into an uproar? They are staying low key because the U.S. has asked them to. They have enough on their hands now with internal terrorists. You're beating a dead horse Aussie. If you want Saddam to have those weapons more power to you. You have your vision of this argument and I have mine, lets see how they play out.
Usantic, you should listen to what Scott Ritter has to say about all of this. FYI, he was head of the waepon inspectors and spent 7 years in Iraq and he is american.
Originally posted by SysLord
Usantic, you should listen to what Scott Ritter has to say about all of this. FYI, he was head of the waepon inspectors and spent 7 years in Iraq and he is american.
I have heard Ritter's objections to use of American force against Iraq and have noted them. However, a number of his colleagues have voiced their concern that Ritter's ego is getting the better of him. As an American, I have to take this avalanche of information and glean truth from hearsay and fact from rumor. Ritter having been in Iraq years ago does have some knowledge of their capabilities but I think for the most part he's been out of the loop too long. I will continue to keep an open ear to his findings though.
Thaum1el
02-19-04, 04:25PM
Originally posted by GLADIATOR
Well the UK likes him.
Ummm... no. Most brits have problems with Blair for following Bush.
Redallnite
02-19-04, 10:28PM
Why did you do this?:finger:
* Diva smacks Red's hand
I was showing him this thread and he posted on it. :p It's still a good thread, regardless of some of the 'old' members on it. :finger:
Redallnite
02-19-04, 10:56PM
Yeah, yeah, yea......... Just rubbing it in.................. ;)
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