Thong wearing teens kicked out of dance

[Diva]

(Yahoo (http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/kgtv/20020429/lo/1178618_1.html)) -- A group of parents are calling for the resignation of Rancho Bernardo High School's vice principal, claiming she enforced underwear checks at a school dance, 10News reported.

The dance occurred Friday and vice principal Rita Wilson turned away girls who were wearing thongs, the parent said.

According to parent Alane Garvik, girls who arrived at the dance wearing short skirts were immediately asked: "What kind of underwear do you have on?"

When Garvik's daughter red-facedly announced that she was wearing thong underwear she was told to "go home and put on appropriate underwear," according to Garvik.

"Well, I just saw ... a line of people and the vice principal, Mrs. Wilson, she was checking to see what the girls were wearing under their dresses. And she was literally lifting up their skirts and embarrassing them in front of everyone else," one student told 10News.

Parents and students have placed the blame on Wilson, for spearheading the thong underwear checks, even though there is nothing in the school dress code against them.

Gentle said that even while enforcing the school dress code, it is not proper procedure to ask students what they are wearing underneath their clothes. I think that the vice principle should be forced to resign. She is there to make sure the kids have a good time, not ensure that they are publically humiliated.

[aussie]

Originally posted by Diva
I think that the vice principle should be forced to resign. She is there to make sure the kids have a good time, not ensure that they are publically humiliated.


Yeh sure let them have a good time. Hell why not throw a few gym mats on the floor and let them screw their brains out as well. For that matter why not break out the bong and pass that around as well. After all who need acceptable codes of conduct in todays society anyway. Its all about a good time isnt it!
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[GLADIATOR]

Excellent point aussie. It's the old adage. First the biscuits get stolen, then the biscuit tin, then the kettle, then the cups then the engine.

I know, very well, through my own daughters. Because of Human Rights Laws, schools and teachers can make no authority at all in classroooms. The children do as they please.

Well rules are rules. Uniform and dress sense should be adhered to. First the socks, then the bra, then the shirt and Hey Ho. Lets all fuck.

I am with the teacher 100% in this one. The law states children must go to school. The school sets rules, and children and parents should adhere to them.

[Diva]

What does public humiliation have to do with fucking? If that was my child and I found out that their Vice Principle was lifting their skirts, much less lifting them in front of people, they'd have to drag me away. She'd learn new and improved cuss words.

No one has the right to check their undergarments. If a girl is on the dance floor and she's twirling around then I would pull her aside quietly, no matter what type of underwear she is wearing. Other than that, it doesn't matter what she's wearing as far as the school is concerned. There is no underwear dress code.

[GLADIATOR]

Yes there is Diva. My daughter already broke it. Did she get support from me? No. Did she get support when she was being picked on by the teachers? Yes.

I made it clear to Katy, you follow their rules and I back you, to the hilt, but if you flaunt it, then they are in the right. Katy changed and learnt the 'Boss is the Boss,' and if/when she becomes the boss, she can set the rules, till then, she follows others.

She is a far better person now, than she was @ 12 months ago.

[aussie]

What does public humiliation have to do with fucking? If that was my child and I found out that their Vice Principle was lifting their skirts, much less lifting them in front of people, they'd have to drag me away. She'd learn new and improved cuss words.

Im sure they would learn a few new words and the very next day it would be all around town "like mother like daughter" thus your stand on slutish behaviour by your offspring would have the net result of having your child ostracised no longer welcome in decent homes all over town. Once that happened your child would then have no choice than to hang with Those kind of girls decent kids wouldnt be allowed to be seen with her at all once she was in with the lower class kids you would have a teen pregnancy on your hands and a dead junkie by the time she was ninteen.
Nice work your bad mouth just ruined your childs life. Its great to see another thinking parent.
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[Diva]

Gladiator:

Had there been a "No Thongs" rule I would still expect the adults to respect the teens enough not to lift their skirts in public. The only other times I've heard of teachers lifting girls skirts they were arrested.

The vice Principle made up this rule without the support or knowledge of the school. That is the key issue. What next? No underwire bras? Would you approve of them checking for underwire? Or how about cotton underwear only? What if the Vice Principle decided to check for that? If the school doesn't endorse it, then she's preying on teenage girls for all we know. I stand by my decision.

Aussie:

See above. If you think that protecting my child's virtue is something done over coffee, you are wrong. Do you always act cool calm and collect? Some adult lifts your child's skirt and you want to shrug it off, fine.

I would rather hope that any adult learning about their daughter's humiliation would be concerned. As for cussing her out? You betcha. As for punching her or screaming? No... There are ways to tell someone off without flipping out.

And your statements regarding her turning into some sort of junkie is pretty fucking low. I've heard plenty of girls laugh about their parent's reactions. Your scenerio is rediculous. Unless you want to assume that all of these girls are snobs. Even snobs don't do that. :finger: :finger: :finger: :finger:

[GLADIATOR]

It's unfortunate you do not have children at school Diva, you would see what terrible issues these teachers have to put up with. Truancy, no discipline, swearing it's really bad.

You know it's illegal to take a mobile phone to school, how many kids do? @100%. It's illegal to take a gun or knife to school, how many do? @ 5%. It's illegal to take weapons to school and murder kids, how many do? @1%.

First the biscuits, then the biscuits tin.

[Diva]

The point is there was no rule. She 'made it up' to suit her personal whatever.... The school all ready said that they do not have any rule pertaining to what the teens wear under their clothes.

I was going to be a teacher, but decided against it when I saw the uphill battle that I would be fighting. I do know what they have to contend with. Are you suggesting that thong underwear is as bad as bringing a knife to school? Do you think that wearing french cut underwear means that you are less likely to... be slutty?

Are you saying that you approve your daughter's Vice Principle lifting her skirt in front of everyone?

[Sterling]

I agree that fixing the little things makes a big difference. That policy applies to all kinds of things, from social policy, policing, to stuff like how you organise your working day.

However, that doesn't really give teachers the right to:

(a) Enforce a non-existent rule in the dress code.
(b) Stoop to the level of demeaning and embarrasing kids by asking them to expose their underwear in front of others.

Oh, and another thing. The people who say that fixing the little things are important are often exactly the same people who indignantly complain "haven't you got real criminals to catch" every time they get pulled over for speeding. Do I detect the faint whiff of hypocrisy?

[GLADIATOR]

Originally posted by Sterling
I agree that fixing the little things makes a big difference. That policy applies to all kinds of things, from social policy, policing, to stuff like how you organise your working day.



Oh, and another thing. The people who say that fixing the little things are important are often exactly the same people who indignantly complain "haven't you got real criminals to catch" every time they get pulled over for speeding. Do I detect the faint whiff of hypocrisy?
Hi Sterling
No hypocrisy, if I get stopped speeding, I take the medicine. My argument is, that the police seem to spend time on the petty or easy criminals, while allowing the real culprits to get away. That annoys me a lot.

[aussie]

Aussie:

See above. If you think that protecting my child's virtue is something done over coffee, you are wrong. Do you always act cool calm and collect? Some adult lifts your child's skirt and you want to shrug it off, fine.

I would rather hope that any adult learning about their daughter's humiliation would be concerned. As for cussing her out? You betcha. As for punching her or screaming? No... There are ways to tell someone off without flipping out.

And your statements regarding her turning into some sort of junkie is pretty ******* low. I've heard plenty of girls laugh about their parent's reactions. Your scenerio is rediculous. Unless you want to assume that all of these girls are snobs. Even snobs don't do that.

First of all I would hope you notice that I quoted this minus the four rather unlady like icons you put at the bottom. I will also post this with out the profanity you included although Im sure you posted it intentionaly just to prove my point. If you cant post without flipping out how could you ever confront a teacher over an imagined slight on your child?
Im sure that this a well ecucated responsible woman with no thought of anything nasty on her mind at all. However you in your wisdom have decided to take it and twist it into something it never was. I would imagine that any Decent minded parents out there would be rather grateful that their children were responsibly supervised wouldnt you?
As for my statements about turning your child into a drug addict being pretty low let me remind you a little of peer pressure. If a kid can be ostracised for having the wrong shoes. Imagine what it must be like when your mother flips out at the vice principal? Once a child loses the respect of their peers then the down ward spiral begins dosnt it?
First of all slutish behaviour at least someone wants them? Drugs and alcohol always help them to feel better for the times they are alone do they not? Then depression stronger drugs? suicide? eating disorders? Tell me none of the above are related.

Your scenerio is rediculous. Unless you want to assume that all of these girls are snobs. Even snobs don't do that.

Just how ridiculous?
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[SysLord]

Woohoo, some stir this topic is causing :)

I think you have to distinguish between goal and operand here. Though the principle might have been acting out of genuine 'concern', her methods were *absolutely* wrong and as a parent I would have taken great offence in this. I'd reprimand the principle for her bad methods and my daugther for her bad sense of dress. She could have at least had the decensy to take the 'offending' girls aside and adress them in private. This sounds just too much to a power exercise to me.

And no, not all girls wearing sexy clothes are sluts and/or junkies. And yes, people should realize and bear consequences of their actions, ie. the clothes they are wearing.

[Lonster]

I think you have to distinguish between goal and operand here. Though the principle might have been acting out of genuine 'concern', her methods were *absolutely* wrong and as a parent I would have taken great offence in this. I'd reprimand the principle for her bad methods and my daughter for her bad sense of dress. She could have at least had the decency to take the 'offending' girls aside and address them in private. This sounds just too much to a power exercise to me.

And no, not all girls wearing sexy clothes are sluts and/or junkies. And yes, people should realize and bear consequences of their actions, ie. the clothes they are wearing.
__________________________________________________ __

Everyone has made good points so far, and debate is a fun thing!!!! However now for my two cents.

The principle had good intentions, but there was no rule in place so on the other hand they did not have force of law!

So what is the root cause. Girls wearing thongs to a school event. Who decides that is right or wrong. That duty should fall on the parents. They are the one that raise the kids. You can talk about peer pressure, conformity and any other valid excuses you want. It is the same as protecting your kids from drugs , kidnapping all other things, the parents are responsible. If the parents don't think anything is wrong with that, then the parent is setting the bad example.

If indeed schools believe parents are not capable of teaching them right from wrong, then the schools need to work with the parents before this type of situation comes up!

Lonster

[GLADIATOR]

Lonster quoted
Everyone has made good points so far, and debate is a fun thing!!!! However now for my two cents.
Important point Lonster thanks for pointing that out.

I really think that both sides are wrong, and both sides have some justification.

First the principle.
I am all behind schools teachers trying to set fair and reasonable discipline. School uniforms, decorum etc. without that anarchy prevails in a school or organisation
The real issues here are:-
1) Did the principle pre warn girls about thongs, if not, then she had no right to claim anyone without advising them first. Thongs are pants, I do not think it's the start of promiscuity.

2) How she handled it was wrong. If she felt that much behind it, she should have acted discretely. sending them home was fine, belittling them is not.

The Parents.
I disagree with Lonster here. while in school, it's their rules and conditions, and it's the parents job to ensure school rules and discipline are maintained.
Parents are too fast to bitch, while allowing their kids to flaunt rules and disrupt classes.

To me, the whole incident is a 'storm in a teacup' The parents should discuss their points, and the teacher should apologise and then ultimately set her rules. If the parents do not like those new rules, they can send their kids to another school.

Democracy, is sometimes 'talking with your feet.'

[Diva]

Lonster! My Lone Star cowboy! You made some very important points. The school as well as the parents need to work together. Usually when a student enters a school they are given a dress code. This should also be given to the parents.

Gladiator, you served it up quite well. Let me just state the it was the Vice Principle and that the Principle stated that there was no rule regarding pupils' underpants.
Principle Gentle said that even while enforcing the school dress code, it is not proper procedure to ask students what they are wearing underneath their clothes. If someone were to lift someone else's skirt on the street that would be considered Sexual harrassment, to say the least.

The truly sad part is that it's the teens who suffer. They are let down by the one adult figure who is supposed to make sure that they are safe. The parents demanding the Vice Principle's resignation now possibly make them feel as if they are at fault for the Vice Principle possibly losing her job. All this over a piece of clothing that no one is supposed to see. Because of one person's power trip, some more kids lose a bit of their childhood.

[aussie]

You do have such a lovely way of exploiting this situation Diva now you have her lifting skirts on the street and sexually harrassing them. Well done *aussie applauds*. Perhaps you could add that she got them on a stage and made a show of it That could add a little drama if you like

So what is the root cause. Girls wearing thongs to a school event. Who decides that is right or wrong. That duty should fall on the parents. They are the one that raise the kids.

Lonster that idea just plain stupid and it Im sure is something you your self would be jumping up and down about. Since its a school for the whole community not just one parents kid How fucking happy would you be about the school saying knives and guns are at the discression of the parents? The school has a duty to protect ALL students not just the ones who come from homes that allow the children to dictate the behavior and set the rules. The school has an obligation to protect the kids from good homes not just the half dozen or so that allow slutish behavior
amongst teenagers.

And most of all inspite of the fact I was told I was defending a pedophile last thing before I went bed last night i do believe she had an obligation to the rest of the parents and the decent kids. To attack her as gaining some kind of perverse sexual gratification from this takes a sick mind indeed and in fact someone with no regard for the situation at all and only out to score points in an internet debate

[Redallnite]

Aussie, wash your fingers out with soap!!! The Principle was wrong in doing what she did but her heart might have been in the right place.

Im sure they would learn a few new words and the very next day it would be all around town "like mother like daughter" thus your stand on slutish behaviour by your offspring would have the net result of having your child ostracised no longer welcome in decent homes all over town. Once that happened your child would then have no choice than to hang with Those kind of girls decent kids wouldnt be allowed to be seen with her at all once she was in with the lower class kids you would have a teen pregnancy on your hands and a dead junkie by the time she was ninteen.


You know how big I am, I would be all over that lady like "white on rye" that coment you made came out of left field. You have a daughter?? What would you have done big guy?? "Lay back and let her be belittled in front of all her friends when the Principle did that too your little girl??"

[GLADIATOR]

Well I really must ask both Diva and Redallnite the real question to this issue.

Do you wear thongs?? Thats really what this thread is about.

[SysLord]

Originally posted by GLADIATOR
Well I really must ask both Diva and Redallnite the real question to this issue.

Do you wear thongs?? Thats really what this thread is about.

No what he really wants to ask: Do you wear thongs and can I see a photo of it? :D

[Redallnite]

You know I think you GUYS just missed the point...............

[Jake]

This has been a hot topic with the kids, and I figure I'd put my 2 cents in. One young lady that just left had defended herself against a female teacher who abused her.

I read up [rather the kids did] and here's some more info that may shed some light. It wasn't just one girl that complained, and there were boys also subjected to this. At one point a police officer was asked by several of the teens to make them stop. He approached the Vice Principle and told her to stop, but she refused to. Here's more from
reuters (http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=humannews&StoryID=905355):
In some cases, said Rancho Bernardo parent Kim Teal, girls also were made to partially undress if Wilson or another teacher suspected that they weren't wearing bras.

Teal, a 43-year-old attorney, said she learned about the skirt-lifting from her daughter, whose friends were forced to show their panties in front of boys, teachers and police officers standing at the door.

Teachers also checked several boys who were wearing togas, Teal said, and some girls were asked about their bras.

"I just got a call from one mom who said her daughter was wearing a poodle skirt and an off-the-shoulder top and a teacher reached right out and grabbed the front of it and pulled it down to check," Teal said.

"She needs to be fired," mother Alane Garvik said. "And if they don't fire her I'm willing to file a lawsuit. My daughter has already told me she doesn't want to go back to Rancho Bernardo if (Wilson) is still there." "She feels violated," Garvik said. "She feels like somebody was messing with her private parts. All those boys there seeing her butt and her thong."

"They said: 'You are overweight so I wouldn't expect you to be wearing something like (thong panties)," Garvik said. "One girl was told she was 'matronly' and since she was 'matronly' they didn't expect her to be wearing something like that."

Other parents said girls were made to partially disrobe if Wilson or another teacher suspected they weren't wearing bras.
I don't care what the original 'intention' was, those were adults who's job was to protect these kids, not humiliate them. No way in hell can you convince me that they would save a young lady's virtue by exposing her private area to classmates and adults.

The backround is that the year before a girl took off her panties and had exposed herself on the dance floor. One girl and she had panties, but took them off. what were they going to do, duck tape the underwear on? This was unnecessary and harmful. These adults just stole a piece of childhood away. I hope they pay.

[Redallnite]

*Kisses Jake*

[Jake]

Originally posted by Redallnite
*Kisses Jake*

What I do? What I do? Tell me so I can do it again and again!!